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The Battlefield Of The Mind
Introducing Rick Yee, author of the groundbreaking book "Everything is a Choice" - where he teaches that even the most complex decisions can be broken down into simple choices.Rick's unique approach is all about training your brain and raising your awareness. Creating the truly authentic, high-value person you were always meant to be. He's helped countless individuals make life-changing decisions and take control of their lives. Don't settle for less than you deserve, start making choices that empower you with Rick Yee's guidance! This is the way, the warrior's way!
The Battlefield Of The Mind
180. The Importance of Trust and Forgiveness in Leadership
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In this episode, Stan Lewis shares his journey from a federal investigator and Navy officer to a mentor and servant leader. He discusses the importance of trust, forgiveness, and authentic leadership in personal and professional growth. In this episode, Stan Lewis and Rick Yee explore the complexities of leadership, communication, and whistleblower dynamics within organizations. They discuss how servant leadership, tactical empathy, and effective mediation can transform workplace culture and resolve conflicts.
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How do you learn who you really are? It's not found in books. It's found on the battlefield. All right. Welcome back, Warriors. Welcome back to the Battlefield of the Mind. Today I'm with Stan, the man Lewis. I added the man part. I'm here with Stan Lewis, and I'm actually excited to be able to have just a cool casual conversation with you today. Can you go ahead and let our people know who you are? And let's get started.
SPEAKER_01Well, uh it's not the first time I heard the Stan a Band thing. You can imagine I've grown up, Rick, hearing that. I'm a newly retired federal investigator, mediator with OSHA Department of Labor. When I was with OSHA for the last decade, primarily what I've done is mediations where I would mediate between the company and the employee regarding whistleblower complaints. Joined the Navy, loved it, ended up becoming an officer, and left the Navy, came back home, gotten law enforcement at the love of my life, my wife of 31 years, and had the opportunity a little bit later in my life to go to work for OSHA on the civil side, civil enforcement. And I said I just recently retired. I coach, I trade, I speak, but today I'm speaking to Rick.
SPEAKER_00I'm excited you're doing that. What's your wife's name, if that's okay? Oh, that's fine. Her name is Barb. Barb. That's awesome. 31 years. That's amazing. And uh really excited. One thing I I see people ask is just because I know people want to get into the federal investigator, the Navy, the books, all the stuff. I'm like, wait a second, this guy's got 31 years of good love. Like, all right, aside from the brochure answers of like happy wife, happy life, or she's always right, or you just say yes, dear. What's one of the things that you've really found that, like, man, the love element of being with this woman for 31 years, if I could give some advice to my guys out there that actually works, what would be some of your heart-to-heart answers you give to some of the guys who are struggling today?
SPEAKER_01Well, I I would use a police analogy. You know, whatever you go ahead and do a building search, you got two people, somebody's gonna go through the door first, and the other person's watching their back. And at some point, you go leapfrog, and the other person will go forward and you'll watch their back, and that's kind of the way that our marriage has been. She has strengths, I have strengths. Um, a lot of times I'm first through the door, but then when her strengths come along, hey, play to those strengths. She has them. She goes forward and I watch her back. You know, I recall Rick when our kids were coming up. We we'd go to uh our son's doctor and we saw this uh penguin, and he was telling us the story of the penguins with the eggs on their feet. And they said, that's like us. All right. So the guy's out doing his thing and everything, and he comes back and he takes the egg. And then she goes off and does her thing. So as we're raising our kids, it'd be time to time and say, Hey, I got the egg, you go do the eggs, go ahead and do what you want to do. Come back. I got the eggs. Um, I I think one of the best things about our marriage is working together to raise our kids. It wasn't all on her, it wasn't all on me, it was on us.
SPEAKER_00I like that. I'll take the egg. Go do your thing, baby. I got your back, you got my back. It's a it's a it's a good call. And I think that we've watched a lot of things get really off the rails for people today. Like our society's gotten real goofed up. Like, no, have each other's back, not just get what you want. Or don't use people and take advantage. Like have each other's back. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01You you you got to do that. She is not me, and I'm not her. And earlier, just before we went off, so everybody knows we we were talking about disc, and uh even in later years, once I became certified in disc and behaved a behavioral consultant, I learned something. My wife is an S rocker gibroster, but one of the things that really matters to her is security. All right, not so much a big deal for me, you know, but for her it is. And I said, you know, wow, I have not been speaking to that, but now that I know that, say, hey honey, I'm here, I'm not going any place, I got your back articulating it. And I have my weaknesses, and she now knows those, and so she speaks to that. So as you go through your marriage, you know, you don't learn everything at the beginning and then go through as you year after year you learn things and you learn to do things better, and you've got to fall on your face. But you've got to fail forward.
SPEAKER_00No, it's a good thing to be able to give grace with each other, too. And it's very true. Yes. My wife runs the women's side for the Warriors Way stuff, and she's got her own program, and we've had to go through hell for her to be qualified to even do what she does. You better be good at it. But safety security is one of the prime things for the for all the women, and especially for like what do we provide as good men? It's like, no, we provide structure safety security, and that really brings them the ability to bring us peace, nurture, love, and and encouragement. Like we can all team up very well, but we do have our role, like you said. Well, that's not really my thing, it's because we create that, Stan. That's us. We don't get the luxury of safety security, we create safety security.
SPEAKER_01But for us, you know, respect and having them there for us and supporting us, that that right there, because you may have a tough day, and come home and say, that's all right, you had a tough day, but I still I still got your back. And sometimes that just means the world right there. My wife respects me and she loves me. And she shows me respect and she and she lets me know that that that's important to me, and it is. Uh so she speaks to that. And if the kids or anybody else out there is disrespectful, she speaks to that also.
SPEAKER_00You mean like making sure we honor each other and like especially it's a very big thing. My wife is huge on that too. One thing that's really sad is uh she's works with a lot of women, and one of the most common things that women do to try to find uh relatability is talk poorly about their husbands. And you've probably seen this like my husband doesn't do nothing, and he's the worst, and he never does nothing around the house, and he's so lazy. And they're always like trying to connect through negativity, they're always trying to use some sort of um hurt or hate to become friends. And my wife don't play that. Like, just no, no, that that does not help.
SPEAKER_01That that does not help at all. It's sort of sort of play games that my name's not Ken. Okay, I'm not you know, I'm about to be played with. Just be be real with me. And I like the fact that she is real, and she tells me how she feels. And she's she says, I'm not gonna play the games that other women play. If I ask you to get me something, that's what I want to give. I know one time she wanted a uh oh, a carpet cleaner. And I'm thinking, oh my goodness, that's that's a faux pas to get your wife a cleaning tool. And so I had other ladies say, you don't want to do that. And my wife said, Listen, if I didn't want it, I wouldn't ask you for it. Get it. So I got it. Yeah, she was totally happy with that.
SPEAKER_02She was stoked.
SPEAKER_00Well, uh this is where I would I would probably say, Who told you it's a faux pas? Because if I bought you a new power tool, some new tool you love, and like, oh, that, but that means you gotta go fix and work on something. You're like, we love fixing and working on things easier. Otherwise, she gotta scrub the floor by hand. A carpet cleaner is way better.
SPEAKER_01And hey, you know what? I love the carpet cleaner too, because if I see something that needs to be done, you know, I do it. And that makes her that makes her happy too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I got your back, you got my back.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00I love it. This is good. Now I'd like those conversations just because right now I think that um people are struggling. And they're not able to do the love or the connection that we're built to do, and and they they don't have the right direction on being able to do connection or even trust, like we're talking about I've got your back, you got mine, and people are struggling today. And it's just cool to watch you guys are 31 years in, my wife and I are nine years in, and it's like things are going very well because you have to do these elements that people seem to have forgotten are fundamental. You know, removing things like trust and honesty and truth to be able to try and have connection and loyalty. It's like you can't remove some of these elements. You know, I don't have your back, but I want you to take care of my safety security. Like, what am I protecting if you won't take you won't have my back? I don't understand. These elements that are seem to be missing, it's really cool to see you guys embody it. So well done, Stan. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00And and well done, Barb.
SPEAKER_02I will tell her you said so.
SPEAKER_00Heck yeah. All right, so you're working on some big projects. Um, I wanna I want to give you a segue option here. You asked me a question at the beginning of this about my name. Do you want to go this way or do we want to talk about a passion project of yours? Either way is good.
SPEAKER_01Let's do that because I want to hear about the name and let's save a little time for my my passion project, which is servant leadership and make sure that people are self-led and you know that that they're good servant leaders. But you know, I I saw that name Curse Breaker there, and I'm like, okay. There's a story behind that.
SPEAKER_00There is.
SPEAKER_01And I'm I'm just curious. That's the investigator in me being curious.
SPEAKER_00No, uh uh rule number seven is challenge everything. We have to ask questions. Only the courageous ask questions. So I honor that very much. So um the Cursebreaker name actually came from just what we do. And I work with people outside of here directly. We have a huge men's organization, women's organization is growing quickly, but uh, we have about 5,000 guys we work directly with, and then we have a lot of people outside of that we work indirectly with. And what my specialty is is being able to get to the behavioral element of, you know, I work with the choice element of how behavior works, and I get into the very core part of why is the behavior there. Most of today's counseling, psychology, or even uh therapy works more on identity work, which goes into management, coping, or medication. Um, I go right to the core root of why is this problem even there, and I show people how to remove the elements of whatever environment they were in, whatever nurturing or lack of nurturing they were giving, whatever traumas or uh issues that they have from, you know, some sort of abuse or abandonment, whatever's come up to it, help them work through their pain, their shame, and overcome anything that came from it, which in today's society is fear or anxiety, it goes to depression and shame, uh, it goes to suicidal ideation, gets into addiction, whatever things are the hardest things for people, usually by the time they've gone through all their therapists and all their people who are trying to manage and medicate, at some point they get to somebody who needs to go, how do I get rid of this? That's what I do. And I'll show you how to do that.
SPEAKER_01So it sounds like to me, Rick, that you're you're getting down to what I call the what percent, because abediation. I'm listening to all of this and getting down to the real issue. What's that what percent, maybe two percent that's the real issue, so that we can actually solve the situation. That's that's kind of what I'm getting from you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Most of the teaching they do today in school is to teach how to trim the tree. I teach you how to tear out the root. You don't have to trim anything.
SPEAKER_02Uproot the bad.
SPEAKER_00So once you know what it is, it's really not that complicated. It doesn't matter if it's fear or most disorders that I work with, most diagnoses that people have are extremely beatable in a very short amount of time without medication. Today's uh today's teaching really teaches people they have to be dependent on some sort of a system. And instead of being able to teach people how to heal authentically, they don't need any type of dependency on a medication or a therapist. In fact, I teach people to not need me. If I show you how to do it, you don't need me, and you can show your kids how to do it too. So that's why I train for good leadership. Um there's only two kinds of guys I've found. You're either trained or untrained. You either know how to do it or I don't know how to do it. So we learn, you practice and you train. Our group uh trains every day. We train every single day. Most of the the things I've seen is maybe once a week. If you ever see the guy who wrote the programs, uh those who train more or those who sweat more in training will bleed less and more. And so we just train more than everybody else does because I want my guys to be competent and meek and capable.
SPEAKER_02Because we live like we're trained.
SPEAKER_00Um, you will your your life is a reflection definitely of your capability and your competency, of course. But this isn't all factors mind, heart, body, and spirit, not just physical. So that's how I got the name Curse Breakers because I'll tear the root out for you. And now your identity is no longer associated to a trauma or something you went through. We'll show you how to grieve effectively. We'll show you how to connect and make it so you can now help your people be able to do better, also.
SPEAKER_01Well, you you said you show people how to grieve effectively. Uh Rick, I I can't tell you how many times in my mediation, uh, both sides are grieving and they can't let go, and trying to help them to let go and not realizing that say, well, I don't want to forgive this person. I do not want to let it go. Well, you realize that they're going on with their life, and the only one that's holding you in bondage is yourself. And if you want to step out of that bondage, I I say it's like a cold, dark, awful room. It is totally uncomfortable, no light. But there is one little light, and if you'll just get up, persevere, and walk to the light, step, step outside of that darkness and let it go and move on. So I'm glad that there's people like you out there helping people to break that curse of anxiety, to break that curse of fear and all the trauma that comes with it.
SPEAKER_00It's pretty, it's uh I'd love to do some back and forth on this thing, especially some of the terms. One of my one of my guys who's very spirit side, um, who I love very much, uh David Day and I, he runs an entire he has a whole Bibles group and a whole nother thing outside of what um what I do, but he's one of my main guys and he runs our our groups. And him and I all go back and forth on terminology. I think as men we enjoy going what does that word mean to you? Because I think I'm using it differently than you are. I want to be on the same conversation, but we're stuck on like the definition may not be the same in the way we're using this terminology, in which case you said I want to help people with forgiveness. And this is a tricky word for people because they don't necessarily understand the definition or the usage of how are you meaning forgiveness in order for me to use it too. How do you help people for yourself, like people who are struggling with this? How do you help them get to that forgiveness our area?
SPEAKER_01Well, what I try to do is get them to realize is that you're you're not saying that the person can get away with what they've done, all right? Or that the person's not actually guilty of what you're accusing them of, of what you said that they did, but what you're doing is letting go of them actually needing to have to come and apologize for or you know, having to try to punish or some type of vindictiveness because of what was done to you. Um it doesn't mean that you forget about it, it doesn't mean that you put yourself back in that situation. But what it does mean is that, all right, this happened, I forgive, and I'm a man of faith, and I've just just like Christ forgave. I forgive. And if you stole money from me, I'm not gonna put my money back with you, okay? But I'm gonna forgive and go on. And I say that people might ask me, well, Stan, do you really do it? I was uh injured in the line of duty as a police officer, and that's why I moved to civil uh law enforcement, and uh I was asked to do something blatantly illegal by a guy, and I refused to do it. And when I got hurt, I got let go by him. And people say, well, Stan was had a hurtful situation. Yeah, I was off work for a long time. But I look at where I am now, Rick, and I'm like, would I rather be there or here? I'm glad I'm here and not there. So why would I want to be upset when I'm in a much better place now? So that's kind of how I look at it. I I forg I forgive him. I'm not gonna go work for him again. Uh, but I have moved on with my life.
SPEAKER_00I think that people really misunderstand, I know that I've gotten into some good debates on this one. Like, oh well, and and this is tough because you're in the in your analogy that you just did, or your story you just did there, um, I know the outcome of this story. And that's where I think people really struggle, is I don't know the outcome of what's gonna happen. They they do the uncertainty element of it, is I just don't know. I just don't know. And during the time where, like, one thing I think I don't want to skip by is you were asked to betray your integrity, you were asked to betray your character, you were asked to be a betrayer, period, even to yourself. And you said, that doesn't sit right with me. I don't know, I'm not going to destroy who I am to try to make you happy. Like that doesn't work, even in any dynamic, if I have to hurt myself. Well, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01Hey, Rick, when I got let go, let me, I was angry and I was hurt, and I held on to that anger for a while, but what I realized at the time, this is not getting me anywhere. For me to go where I want to go, I've got to let this go and focus on where it is that I want to go.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's true. What part were you so angry about? Like if you had to go like, I was angry because what were you doing?
SPEAKER_01Betrayal.
SPEAKER_00So you felt betrayed by him because he you wouldn't betray for him.
SPEAKER_01Loss of loss of income, uh, you know, basically loss by badge. And, you know, us, you know, our work is, you know, for a lot of us our our our identity, and I've been doing this for 12 and a half years. And having to face that I'm not gonna be able to do this anymore, and then on top of this, I have that. But now again, I'm a man of faith, and you know, I I just remember crying out to the Lord one day and just really fell in the heart, you just need to let this go. And not being so much concerned about him, but where it is that I want you to go. And when I let that go and focus on where I felt God wanted me to go, that's where I put my focus. And I was able to let this go. And yes, years later, when I look back on it, there's there's no anger, no lingering, regrets, or anything. Matter of fact, Rick, I bumped into the guy at a Christmas party that a constable was having, and he turned around, he looked at me because he basically thought I was ruined. He couldn't figure out why I was there. He goes, Well, what are you doing? And without any animosity or anger, I said, I'm a supervisory federal investigator with my old team of investigators. And I felt in that moment, God gave me closure. See where you were, where I brought you now. And and I I was totally at peace. I I didn't say it to be snide or anything, I just answered the question. So I then it works when you let stuff go.
SPEAKER_00Go ahead, bro. Do you want to do a fun exercise to show people like how this works? I want to I want to just ask you some questions and then go through it. Just so people can go, like, hey, I want to see how did Stan do this? And I'm just gonna ask you some questions and just go through them together. And I want to kind of show something together that's really neat with how like let's do a step-by-step. Like, how did Stan do it? I want to just go, like, I just forgive, but like, let's do some things to show that you actually went through this in a in a cool way, okay? All right. All right, step one, we want to go through. We got to go through truth, right? Now, truth. Did all of that happen? Like, he asked you to betray, you wouldn't betray, you said, I'm not gonna do that. You got hurt, and now it felt like he can, like, well, now I can throw you under the bust. Did all this happen? Is that what happened?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. It happened. And because I was let go, uh you had to give up your badge too. And everything that went with being a peace officer and then, you know, struggling with the whole identity issue. So, yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00What was important to because you're like, do you took my badge, you had me give up the authority that I've worked on, my position, my identity. What were the things that were important to you that you found like during this, like, man, I I wish I would have had that, or I really enjoyed this. I wish you wouldn't have done that, because then I would still have this. What did you find was very important to you that was being lost?
SPEAKER_01Um, my sense of identity, like I said, um I this is what I've done. Uh, to I was a master peace officer. Uh I've gone from basic, intermediate, advanced master peace officer. I picked up auto certifications, you know. Uh I I had been an investigator. So I spent over a decade working very, very hard at this. And I loved it, but you know, this this happened and I did need to let it go.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. I don't want to jump to the end. Okay, so on this one, you worked hard and you said I loved it. What did you love about what you did? Like what were like these are the things that I loved when I did it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, serving people. And at the time I was a school resource officer, and I I enjoy being on the campus. I enjoy working with the with with the kids, the community, because I got to serve.
SPEAKER_00How did you like helping the kids in the community? What was like your favorite way to do it? Like cleaning, teaching, fixing, building? Like what was your favorite thing you like to do?
SPEAKER_01Teaching, but also mentoring. And then and then guiding some of the kids who might go down the wrong direction in the right direction. One of the things I would do rather than just write a kid a ticket and have them go straight to court, so I call them into the office, I write a ticket, and I call the parents and say, Mom and dad, uh, here's how this works. I write the ticket, you got to take a day off to go to the hearing, you got to take a day and go off of the trial. But I have a deal for you and your child. If he or she will stay out of trouble to the end of the year, they could come in here, tear this ticket up in front of me because I got a year to file it. Tear the ticket up, and uh I'll call you, and they'll get to tell you they got to turn it up. So having them line up at the outside the office at the end of the year and seeing all those kids who behave themselves and get to come in there and tear the ticket up and call mom and dad. I tore the ticket up. You know, making a promise to them, having them make a promise to me, being there for them, mentoring them. And then, you know, it's a little weird celebration at the end, but it kept them out of trouble that year. Without anything going on their record.
SPEAKER_00Mm-hmm. This is pretty clever. So I I like that you did this, and this idea of um giving their opportunities to outgrow their consequences is a very clever play. And it gave them the idea that you are actually in charge of being able to have the choice to give them empowerment. I mean, empower the kids. Yes, yes. If you're able to stay out of trouble, you can actually remove or get rid of this mistake you made. And that's a very clever thing to teach consequence in a way to get them to believe in themselves. Like, look how good you're able to be. But it's again one thing I've noticed too that you did very cleverly here. I'm gonna praise you a little, is that I I found that most people are generally going to be as good as their consequences allow, especially if they're unhealthy. And so you're like, you have a consequence, but I'm gonna give you a chance to outgrow your consequence if you choose to be better. And the effort that this kid can now put into being better than they were before, now can erase the consequence they're trying to avoid. It's a very clever play that you did here.
SPEAKER_01And so I appreciate that. I I received that prize.
SPEAKER_00It's it's really it's a smart move. And some people may maybe you didn't even know like how deep this was gonna go. I'm like, that is actually what I was doing. I just didn't want him to be an asshole. Like, like this was actually a really clever play. But being able to give empowerment to believe in themselves by giving them the opportunity to outgrow consequence is a very good mentorship or a guidance way to say, I can mess you up, but you can go ahead and make yourself no longer in trouble by being authentically good. Correct. Putting effort towards it. It's it's a good thing. So being able to a good teacher or a good mentor serving, and this looks like you're doing a very loving way to serve. So being able to give love in a way that these kids may have needed in structure or guidance is a very healthy thing. You said you like to create peace, you want to be able to um have a sense of purpose that also gave you that drive and what it is that you were doing here. And there's probably more to this, too. You said the badge, you said I had a lot of certifications, but I think those were things that you worked hard for, but not necessarily it the passion you had around helping these kids seems higher than just having the authority of the badge. But maybe I'm maybe I'm adding. Is there more to the badge element?
SPEAKER_01Having that, uh, you know, being able to serve others, being able to protect others from uh, you know, people who want to harm them, which is one of the major reasons why, you know, I want to be a police officer. I'm not a big advocate of bullies. Um, but to go in and help people, like I said, to serve and protect. And for me, that it means more than just uh a a couple of it's not just a catchphrase.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Protection, deter bad people. There's a lot of elements here that are very important. And these are valuable things to know, right? Now this was all taken away. Now, things that are taken away from us or things that we lose, we don't like that. We also don't enjoy things that are very unfair or unjust or having unmet needs. And this these are these categories that get us angry. Like that's wrong. I don't like that. You betrayed me. These are the things that I have. I'm I love mentoring, I love bringing peace, I love protecting, I love uh empowering, I love giving people hope and purpose. I have meaning in what it is that I do, and now you're gonna take that away from me. You're going to say, unless I'm a bad person, you'll do bad things to me. And is that right or wrong?
SPEAKER_01Uh yes. I I I I felt that way. And uh, you know, I like said, you know, I there was one day that I I cried out to God about it, of the unfairness of it all. And I think we all kind of get there. And uh there were things I I had to not only reconcile about that, but things I had to reconcile about myself that I felt God called out. He says, okay, so you had this here, and in your giving, you you tossed something into plate, but you know, there there are things that I call for the the 10% you want me to do for you, but you can't do the basic things that I asked for you to do. So when I cried out to him, he called me out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What did you say call out? What was your thing when you'd be like, I got you? You know that you know I see your stuff, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, the thing is, is that I'm asking for all this stuff. It said, how you know, God, how can you do this? He says, Well, how can you not do the things that I've asked you to do? And you know, I said, All right, all right. He reminded me of the Malachi promise, you know, give and see if I will not give back to you. You know, words of effect. So we did. We started tithing. It was like, man, we only got one salary here, but all through that, he consistently met our needs. Scholarship that I didn't even know was available for police officers injured in the line of duty came up. Internships, I was able to get chapter 31, been fighting the VA for probably 20 years, and then all of a sudden, breakthrough, 10%, chapter 31. I get to go back and work on my master's degree. And it was always a little bit more and a little bit more. And eventually, uh, after about a little over two years, when I was finally clear by the doctors to go back to work, there was a job ready for me. And I was able to step into it since this uh position in 2010. Well, not 2010, it was uh 2008. And really haven't looked back since uh when the census was over, I was able to immediately step over into uh back into law enforcement again as a federal investigator and was promoted to supervisory investigator. And there is a cool element to all of this, but I know you work in a process, so I'm gonna let you work your process. Go ahead, brother.
SPEAKER_00No worries. Yeah, I just I know you're excited to get to it, and I want to get to it too. I just want to jump ahead too much. I want people to be able to do this process too. So I just want to go right back to before you like I fit with God got me, which I know how that won't work, so get you. But you were like, hey, this is unfair, right? Um, this guy, he's gonna punish me for being good. And God's like, you're you're like, God, why how could you do this to me? Why did you do this to me without even paying attention to what it is you feel like is unfair? I feel like you're taking the badge, all my hard work, my certifications, all of my uh ability to serve the community and protect people, deter bullies and empower children to have opportunities to outgrow this bad behavior. How can you take this away from me? Why am I being punished for this? Without ever asking, what is it you're asking to be successful in right now? Because in this environment, you have to lie to be successful. You have to betray who you are, you have to not be good in order to have the praise and admiration from the source. Who are you serving?
SPEAKER_01If you're it's even worse than that, Rick. It was even worse than that. Uh, you know, I I felt like my injury was being used against me because that's what got me oust under FMLA. And so that to me even took it up a notch further, like the what of the unfairness of it all.
SPEAKER_00How could you let me get injured and then have people punish me for an injury? It's an insult to injury, right? Literally. Yes. Quite figuratively and literally, this is an insult to injury. And so now you're injured, you're being kicked out and punished, so you can't have the life that you had before. And in order to be successful in this place, you must be a betrayer and a liar. And you're wondering why God has you removed from that area. Why are you being punished from the you must lie and betray to be successful group? What a crazy God to take you out of the lie and betray to be successful group. What a crazy God.
SPEAKER_01Like I said, you know, I we we we had uh we had a little outcry by Diety Group uh uh about all of this. It come to find out that he he was there and there there was there was a plan, and I had to trust him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, before I go there, what would have happened if God would have listened to you?
SPEAKER_01Oh man. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00We think we all have to do it.
SPEAKER_01My plans, oh my goodness, my plans would not have would not have worked. I would not be where I am right now.
SPEAKER_00I would not. But if it did work, that meant you have to go back to an environment where you must be a liar. You must go back to an environment where you must betray yourself and do look over your shoulder the whole time. Gotta look over your shoulder the whole time. You want to be a person who's a man of integrity for serving and mentoring and guidance, and yet you'll betray everything that you are to be a mentor. What kind of mentor would you be if God kept you in that environment?
SPEAKER_01Not a very good one.
SPEAKER_00You'd be a hypocrite at that point, and that's not for you. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so this is where it's kind of like, okay, I have to go through the process of like maybe being angry at God on this one, if he were to listen to me, I'd have to live a life as uh in hypocrisy in order to be the badge or the man or the the the mentor. And it's like, well, wait a second, that's not gonna be good for us. It doesn't work, it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_01It's not it's not gonna be good, but the the plans of men we get in our way pretty good, huh? Oh yeah. Well, we we trip ourselves up all the time.
SPEAKER_00We sure do. Now we can see on this one that doesn't match a good very that's a moral code that wouldn't work for you. That's that shows you very highly this moral compass wouldn't line up with my own. So this is maybe not a punishment, but teaching me who I am. Now it comes to the last part of this. How much of this was just a bummer? Like, how sad was this? The whole the injury, the betrayals, the the being removed from all of the hard work you've done, how sad was the entire interaction?
SPEAKER_01I was I I got I made myself very distraught over it. Um, to be honest, I probably was not the best person to be or around at the time. Another reason why my wife is so great. But she she she remained the constant loving person that she is.
SPEAKER_00Uh it was very bad, but there was uh uh but there's a little five-letter word, until uh I don't want to jump to your until I really want to sit in this this is important. Your distraught area that you were in. I don't want to skip this because this is where most people are sitting still. So, how did Stan find his way through this? I was distraught. I was at the bottom of this thing. I was sad, I was depressed, I was closed off, I was isolated. Like, how did you handle like this the sadness element of it? Like, I was in this, how deep? How how was the despair and distraught you were in?
SPEAKER_01Like I said, I just called out to God. Uh prayer is just basically speaking to our Father. It's just speaking. It's not like a special chant or a song that you gotta sing, it's having a conversation with him. So that's what I did. It was a very loud conversation with much tears and and shouting and accusing by me of the unfairness of it all. In all the ways that it was unfair.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and keep going. Like, I don't want you to skip the sadness. I see you're jumping to the solution. I want to stay.
SPEAKER_01No, no, no, no, no. Just in every way that it was unfair, just marching back and forth, and you know, just crying out to him, and this went off for a while. Uh, you know, like I said, tears crying.
SPEAKER_00What was the parts that you were the most sad for? Like I felt like this is where my sadness was stuck.
SPEAKER_01Like the the most thing where I really felt stuck is here I was, and the way I got injured is helping to lift the car off a lady. So it was work-related. And here I am helping to lift the car off a lady, and you're allowing these people to use my very injury against me. That is so unfair. What what are you gonna do about this? Where am I to go from here? I'm lost, I don't know what to do, I'm not understanding. I'm feeling broken, and that's how I was at the time.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So you have were distraught. You you were you're distraught, you were lost, confused, broken. You felt like uh almost like I have to just go like there's an accusation of going towards God, like, why'd you do this? This is unfair. The unfair part is still back, and like I'm anger anger by the way, cause like that's not right. That's unfair to do to people, but you want you want fairness, you want justice, and this is important because what you're doing is something that's very necessary to get to the the phases of this, which is getting to acceptance before I can even get to forgiveness. And this is where I want to now we can go towards the next thing, which is like, okay, I cried out to God. I went through the stuff to go, God, I'm going through all of these areas here. It's unfair, I'm lost, I'm broken, I'm confused. And then until then until you said I closed the door behind me, I had some time with God, time to pray it up. Until what? What was your until?
SPEAKER_01He spoke back to me and said, you know, you're you're asking me to do all of these things, but you can't even do a simple thing like tithing. But you want me to do all of these things. If you want me to put this in my hands, I take, I'll take it. But you're gonna have to trust in me. And if you're gonna truly trust in me, then show it. Put the 10%, and I was like, oh, whoa Lord, we're barely making it. We're barely making it. Come on, man. We got a what it comes. Put 10%. Oh, yeah. And I only done 10% of what at first. Oh God, come on, come on, seriously. And so then there was another outcry, okay. So this is the until, but I haven't gotten to the ultimate until then I had to grieve through this one too, being uh upset and angry until I realized that if I want him to be in control of my life, if he is truly the Lord of my life, and everything is his anyway, do what he says, and I had to accept that. And once I accepted it and committed to it, and started putting steps into place to carry it out. We we started doing that. We started paying the 10% before we started paying the bills, and you know, now we come to the other t we we were we never had to do without. We always had what we need. I remember one time I walking past the shoe store and said, Man, it sure would be nice to have some new shoes for my kids who go to school. And there was a radio station there, and and they happened to have a contest. My name got pulled out. Now I'm still with a sore back and everything. I had an X amount of time to run through the store and pick up shoes. But my babies had shoes, I had shoes, my wife had shoes. But it was things like this that he kept providing those opportunities. Food on the table, bills being paid. Until the time and being able and then getting a stipend from the VA for chapter 31, which allows the disabled vet to go back to school to get a degree or education, be able to do the job and be able to find a job. And so I went through that and started working on my master's degree. Right about the time I had the right amount of hours, this job opened up with the census. I had the right amount of hours and experience to be a partnership specialist. I didn't know what a partnership specialist was, but the door was open, and I went, got in, became a supervisor, and it was an outstanding opportunity. Work for a great boss. He says, This job is going to end, but if you do a great job, I will write you a substantive evaluation. And he really did, and that email helped me move over into the Department of Labor. So, you know, that that kind of goes into the until now uh it got to the point of Rick that we were tithing what I was making in that job. Every year. Total income for that job that I gotta let go from. We were tithing that about.
SPEAKER_00I want to be very clear because I think people can confuse the concept of tithing itself. I think there's a different interpretations, and it's not to say one is better than the other, but I I'm curious on your version of what tithing means, because my version may not be the same as yours, so I'm curious on what yours means.
SPEAKER_01Take the ten percent of the of your your crops, your production, and give that back to the Lord. To to a church uh that you that you go to, and that's what we did. And we've been consistent in that in taking 10% of our gross income and we and we donate that back to the church.
SPEAKER_00So you give yours to the church. Okay, and that can work. I was I was just curious on what that means.
SPEAKER_01And there are there are charities we we do give up and above because they're charities. I've been involved in Roll Ranger Ministries for over 35 years, and so we would make donations to that Christian mentorship ministry of Roll Rangers and missionaries and things of that nature. I guess what I'm kind of getting at is that I I had to get out of my old way. Yes. And I had to yes, I want people to do that too.
SPEAKER_00So I'm like, okay, how did you do it? So that way if someone's going, how did Stan do it so I can do it too? I want to I'll do a breakdown in a second on what's going on. But like, I want people to go, I want to learn from Stan, because if he did this and it worked, how did he do it so I can do it too? And my definition of tithing, because we tithe hard, is not to a church. We do not tithe to church. That's not where we tithe. We tithe to the people who need it. We have people all I have a huge organization of people who need groceries or are not safe or need help or they're struggling, or you know, we we help with program work or we give them opportunities they never would have had before, or we connect them with people who can support them that they didn't have access to. We tithe.
SPEAKER_01You do it at Joseph's day, my friend, doing uh people's droughts, you're opening up the grade house, and you're you're you're giving out to to the people.
SPEAKER_00You give that time of want. That's what we do. And so it my 10%, I don't even check to see the percentage. I go, who needs what and do we even have it? If we have it, we give it. And we give without needing to praise, and that's why I'm not gonna look how much I give. It's not about me. It's about do the right thing over and over again. And you give to give, not to get. You do not give and keep score. Yeah, give just to give, because that is right. And you do not do any Matthew 6, you do not do any loud self-worship, do not make yourself self-righteous by going like the Pharisees, though. And that's why I'm like giving it amount. Well, no, no, and you and I agree on this. This is why it's not necessary. It's about the principle of you give to give, not to be praised, not to be worshipped. And so this is important by going, well, what's the what's the way that this works? The tithing of 10% is the idea of like at least give 10%. You can give more. What I have found is that everything that you give just to give, without posting about it, without praising yourself about it, without trying to get the applause of the crowd about it, you just do that. Your the blessings come three to ten X back to you in other ways. It doesn't come from that source. God blesses you in all these different ways. And I think people think that the tithing element means I gave, so now where's mine? It's like you're gonna corrupt the system if you're not doing it with the right energy. And I think that that's kind of what you're sharing. As soon as we stop going, you know what, we're just gonna, we're just gonna give because we give. We just do that. And then now you start seeing blessings come in because you're no longer being so self-worshiping or self-ish. Now you're going, no, I know that we must give. And then abundance starts to accumulate. Opportunities start to change, your friendships start to change, your outlook starts to change, the contest you never would have won. All of a sudden, now you're running through a store to try to get shoes. Like things just start happening in a very weird way.
SPEAKER_01And he fulfills promise when he says, you know, if if you could it it's the only place where he says that you could actually child share the hold of accountable. See if you do these, say, see if I will not bring a cup to overflowing. And he always does. And I love what you said because it's it's it's biblical. The Pharisees would stand out and you know, and pray loudly, and everybody see them, and Christ says, Okay, right there, you've you've received all that you're gonna get right there in that praise. But it's it's for the ones that'll go in their closet. Yeah, I'm telling you about this. I'm just giving my testimony to say that God is faithful for what he says that he will do, he will do it. But I had Stan had to get out of the way because the way that I was gonna direct things, and I'm happy to say right now that I I let him, and anytime I try to do otherwise, it thinks, you know. And that's me, that's what I believe. Um, I think he has borne it out. Um my wife, you know, I'm I was a little bit hard-headed. I remember the first time taking her for uh for a date, right? And I felt speak to my heart on that very night. So that's the woman I have for you. And I was like, whoa, okay. So I've kind of been that way throughout my life. I'm not saying he's always speaking loudly to me. There's been very few times. That time, that day in my living room there talking with me. Um there's been very few times, but when we follow him and follow his word, good things happen, and that was the case here. But I'd like to uh it's allowed me as a mediator to be a peacekeeper. And that's what I've gotten to do for these last 10 years is to come in and broker peace between Fortune 500 companies, CEOs, CFOs, COOs, down the mom and pop companies and their employees.
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SPEAKER_01It's to come in there and make peace where they felt that there was no way. There's absolutely no way. Rick, I have come in and said, Stan, there's no way. We're not gonna resolve this. We're not gonna resolve this. But almost 700 times in a course of a decade, we were able to get it done.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Let me show you something. You want to see something? We went through the truth about what happened. Something bad happened. You were injured and you were fired. That was true. That happened. The reason that it happened was not good. So what did you lose? You had a sense of identity, your sense of purpose.
(Cont.) 180. The Importance of Trust and Forgiveness in Leadership
SPEAKER_00You like to create help, you like to create peace, you like doing the hard work and showing love and serving, teaching, and mentoring. You like to give opportunities to people even to outgrow consequence. You like doing empowerment, helping people to believe in themselves, do protection, and stop bad people from doing bad things. You felt like there was a sense of unfairness in a system that was never meant to be fair because it wasn't serving God, it was serving you. And once you remove the element of you know, worshipping your badge and you'd give that up, now you have a job that helps you be able to understand people who are distraught, lost, confused, and broken. To be able to be a peacemaker. You have a sense of purpose now. You work for big guns upstairs in a way that you are blessed. Your hard work now does serve in a way that feels authentic and genuine, that doesn't betray yourself, and it gives opportunities now to really protect in the way that you feel like you were called to do.
SPEAKER_01Well, I like how you define the badge as an idol because when I hear you say that, I look back on it and I say, you know what? That's absolutely true. Call out true for what it is. It absolutely was true. And and there's only one you should worship.
SPEAKER_00But yes, neither the one or the eye. I'm with you. What I'm pointing out is what I went through was your denial, your bargaining, your anger, and your sadness to get to acceptance. And if you go through the acceptance phase to heal through all of the stuff that you value through bargaining, which was being the peacemaker, purpose, hard work, serving, opportunities, empowerment, believing, and others, all of the things that you valued is now what you went toward to create something authentic. I'm pointing out through the hardship of your grief, it gave you the opportunity for your authenticity. And this is why people don't grieve effectively, is if you understand how to do the grieving system of what we just did through one of your hardest things, it shows you as soon as you can let go, surrender, or get rid of the elements that stop you from forgiving even yourself. Stop your grieving stunt your opportunity to be able to hear God say, I'm going to give you something difficult that you must do so that way you can achieve and accomplish what you're built to be here for. And I'm pointing out that going through your grieving went directly towards how you can heal and grow and fulfill your purpose.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_01Rick curse breaker teacher the master class.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that there, brother.
SPEAKER_00So that's how we teach how to grieve effectively. You have to go through denial, bargaining, anger, sadness, get to acceptance, and then once you can go through the acceptance, then we can do forgiveness. Then we can go through the elements of now what do I do next. I don't have to hold the hate in my heart, resentment, or contempt. Those are very heavy, heavy things to hold. But being able to work through that gives you now opportunity to fulfill what it is you're called to do instead of bitching and complaining about not being able to work at the liar's club anymore.
SPEAKER_01I love that. Because it's hard to take action to take action steps of where you need to go. If you're holding this big old anchor and you're trying to see that next pavestone that you need to step on to take you where you need to go, you got to set it down. Go to where you want to go, say bye. I don't have to live here anymore. And that's kind of what needed to happen. And in mediation process, Rick, I would try to do the same thing. And what I was finding, when there was actually a whistleblower violation, I'm gonna say employers are wrong all the time because they're not. Sometimes the employees are the problem, sometimes the employers are the problem, sometimes actually they're both a problem. But when there is a problem, it's usually, and even in my case, if that individual would have been better self-led, because he was not self-led very well, he could not lead others. And so he tried to manage the situation to where it would work out best for him.
SPEAKER_00That well, that one, this is where I'd have to understand. Again, you're gonna see I do semantics. Well, someone who's self-led, they're self-led. Well, what does that mean? So I can understand what that means to know, like, what does that mean for being self-led?
SPEAKER_01Learning how to be a leader. Too many leaders have tapped on the shoulder and said, Thou art now a leader. And so learning how to communicate in a way that you connect with other people, learning how to empower the people that are going to be leading you, and connecting with them in such a way that you have coaching conversations because they're the closest to the task that's being done. And so you they should know how to do it. And if they don't, get them the training so that they do. But if they know what they're doing, then as a leader, go, okay, we got this task. What are the seven, maybe seven things that have got to be done here? And they name seven and say, hey, you know, one, two, three, four, really great, not too crazy about five, love six, not crazy about seven. I tell you what, let's put five and seven up on the shelf and let's take the rest because I love what you're talking about there. So, how are you going to carry this out? And you use open-ended questions to get the process and to keep the process going until everything's laid out, all the action steps to fulfill the task, and you remove obstacles out of their way. Well, if you're going to be self-led, you need to know how to remove the obstacles that you put in your own way. Limiting beliefs, doubts, negative self-talk. All right, and little office politics, you know, being able to put all that stuff to the side, and to be able to lead yourself to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, to be tidy, uh, and once you're able to do that, then you can pour leadership into other people.
SPEAKER_00Okay. I don't want to misunderstand this because there's a lot of stuff that you gave. So I want to try and grab my cliff notes here. And to try to understand what a self-led person is, is they're called to leadership. They have to do connection. There's an empowerment element of this for themselves, also to empower those that they work with. And then they need to be well trained in understanding what their position or what their job is to be able to serve others in the best way they can. You mentioned the seven steps thing. I don't know what that one is for this yet. But there's an open-ended questions element to be able to find the answers or connections to what it is we're doing with these seven steps, uh, to be able to remove their own obstacles. And obstacles in the way would be limiting beliefs, doubts, negative self-talk, uh, politics, or not being timely is what I've got right now. And that would be a self-led person.
SPEAKER_01Correct. So to me, those are a lot of the some of the basic elements of being self-led. It's hard to empower other people if you you don't feel that you can empower yourself to do what it is that you need to do.
SPEAKER_00Now, on all of this, um maybe this is mean it's needing more information. Which part of this would go towards intentionality, which seems to be like, what's the intention behind what they're doing? Because self-led and self-ish doesn't seem like it's going to be too far based on intention. Because I can do all these things if I just want what I want. But like, you mean how do I help others or how do I have an intention to be able to make others better? How do I differentiate the difference between somebody who's self-led for self and self-led for service?
SPEAKER_01If you're making yourself better so that you can in turn help other people make themselves better, if you're empowering yourself so that you're able to go out and empower others. If you are working on your communication in a way that you connect with others, and you're doing that and you're working on that with yourself so that you're able to go out and help other people communicate in a way that connects. Those to me are some of the principal elements of being self-led.
SPEAKER_00Hey, yes, if you're doing it for you, uh it's tricky because people be like, Well, I want what I want still. I want them to do what I want them to do, I want them to obey, I want them to do what I think they should do, regardless of how much it affects them negatively. Like, do your damn job. You're here for a reason. Get self-led. You're not self-led enough, which means I think you should be more obedient, you should you should empower yourself and make yourself better, and you need to connect better in your communication to do what I want you to do. Because I'm self-led, you be self-led.
SPEAKER_01Well, first that person has to do is look in the mirror.
SPEAKER_00I'm looking and I'm looking. I want everybody to listen to that guy in the mirror. Why aren't they doing what I want them to do, Stan?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because you're not doing what you need to do. I'm a big believer in servant leadership. Uh real quick, so far as what I mean by that, if you want people to be for you, you need to be for other people. Uh I would, I remember as a naval officer, um, you know, one of the things I had to do is prevent a maintenance of missile officer, and I come in and I say, serious chief, I want all the guys that do these preventive maintenance checks to teach it like it's a class. So that I learn my equipment, but I have an idea like how it is that they do their job. All right, so they were telling me the way that things should be done. Now I can hold them accountable as a leader for making sure that it's done at that high level all the time. See, I'm having through that maintenance check, I'm having a coaching, I didn't realize it at the time, but then I was having a coaching conversation with them on how to take care of that equipment and how to operate that equipment. And so now we both have an understanding of how it should be done, but it wasn't me telling that petty officer how to do it. It was the petty officer telling me how they were gonna do it with intentionality, with excellence, excellence, and efficiently. So all I had to do is make sure that all the little barriers that might get in their way, try to keep that out of their way, and letting them know if you do what you say, it's it's gonna reflect in your evals because you've just told me the way of evaluating you because you set a high level. So all I gotta do is that if you meet the high level that you have set for yourself. So they took care of it. It makes your job a whole lot easier as a leader if your people who has the knowledge and skills and that are closest to the task. Say, hey, this is how to get this done. And I'm sorry about the seven-step deals. I was just gonna say, give me some ways that this ought that this task or this project ought to be done and getting input from them or how that's what I'm trying to do is to get them to own the process, Rick.
SPEAKER_00Got it. So they're gonna own the process of their own standards, and the agreement that you have with them is based on the standards that they set for themselves, which means you don't really have to do much to hold accountability. They set the standard of their own accountability. Correct. Got it. And so they get to own their part to it. They, this is my own standard, and you're like, I agree with you. Let's go ahead and do that together. And this I and this is where it's a tricky thing, and I want to go back more to the you know, the violations of the whistleblowers, the job that you do now. Uh because obviously, you know, I could get into limiting beliefs, doubts, negative self-talk, you know, all of these things. I can go all day with those ones, but let's go with something a little different because all of my military guys know that military is a different planet, it's a different universe. There's a chain of command, there's a hierarchy element, there's punishment systems that don't apply in the real world. You can't come out. All my military guys would come out, they'll be at their new job and go, You're not doing a good job. Drop and give me 50, and they go, I'm
SPEAKER_01Gotta do that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right, people have to do that, like so. People don't have to listen to people with these things. The standards are the systems in military, it's its own planet, it doesn't work in the real world. People don't do that. No one's I'm not doing push-ups because you said so. I don't even know you. Like, that doesn't work like that. There's no system. So being able to say, I will hold you accountable to your own standards, the idea is good, but that world has its own thing. How do we apply this in a world where there isn't a system where there's going to be a commanding officer that's going to issue punishment? And necessarily, how do I lead by example to be the person who's able to communicate and connect without necessarily having a chain of command?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'll give you something I shared with a class I did a training on here the other day. Uh back in 2001, shortly after uh 9-11, companies had it really, really difficult. And uh Kid Bletchard uh had a coaching uh training business, had about approximately 350 employees, and they got to the point they were losing $1.5 million a month. That's unsustainable. I don't care who you are, it's pretty much unsustainable. And so they have to figure out how are we going to overcome this. Now they could have just started firing and laying people off and slashing everything to the boat. But here's what a leader does. He got all brought all of them together and said, hey, here's the situation. It's horrible. We're bleeding out $1.5 million a month. We have to make some changes, and we want to get some feedback and some input from y'all on how we're gonna do it. So he got feedback. He got suggestions from his people. His people volunteered to do things. They made suggestions on how to cut expenses. They made suggestions on how to increase revenue. And he empowered his people to be able to make suggestions to have input and then holding them to it. Three years later, took every employee to Hawaii for a four-day celebration because the company had righted the ship. So, what am I saying here? As a leader, and Ken Blatcher is big into servant leadership. Showed that he was for his people because he didn't start just laying people off. He brought them in, I want to keep you, but we got to make some changes here. I gotta get by it. So, what are your suggestions? And they worked together as a team. Three years later, total turnaround.
SPEAKER_00Servant leadership works. It's a good example of being able to say, hey, we have to do truths, tough truths here. We're gonna get through some changes together.
SPEAKER_02And they weren't grieving, brother. They had to have to go through your whole step there at the beginning, brother.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they got to go through this. Is happening for sure. And and with this one, I think that it's wise to do this. And and I do this in my organization also. I'm like, we're all in this. Like, if if this goes down, we all go down, you know that, right? So how do we all work together? And a good idea can come from anywhere here. We're we're all in different parts here. So the suggestions, the input, and the empowerment that leads to an ownership of you're a part of this, and this is partly yours too. So let's do something to grow this. I'm with you very much on that. Being able to go, like, hey, we're gonna go.
SPEAKER_01What you said there, I oh, you will cross over. You accepted the ownership. So when you talk about being self-led, in order to get other people to accept ownership, you first must accept ownership.
SPEAKER_03Correct.
SPEAKER_01And out of that example, you could pour leadership into other people, and that is what Kid Blatchard did.
SPEAKER_00Yes, be the example, and then empower with ownership. You're part of this too. Let's do it together. And this is good. And I like that example better because like it does make it so the idea of like I think people go, you have to be self-led, and you've seen bad, bad, bad bosses. I won't call them leaders because they're not.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna be still at F Rick, but go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you can. You can see this, you can take it because as long as we're helping people take whatever you like. But the idea of being a bad boss versus a leader is a very different thing. And somebody who goes, like, hey, um, you need to be self-led, and that makes you a bad employee. So since you're not doing all these things, um, you're not breaking your limited beliefs, you still have doubts, you have negative self-talk, you're still caught up in the office politics, you're not doing things in the order or timely manner I think you should be doing them with. You're not taking ownership of your position. You said that this should be done a certain way, and it's not done that way. You're the problem here. You need to be self-led. You're not self-led enough. Maybe we need to get somebody else in here who leads themselves better. And this is how quickly you watch a bad boss take what you just taught and corrupt it into something that is not what you're saying, but using all of our stuff against you, and you're like, ah, we have to do that. Well, I will say, what does it mean to be self-led?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I want to say close to 70% of the people that leave their job today leave it because of a bad thought.
SPEAKER_00So it's it's an important thing. And people think that because they're in charge or they have the badge, that that means I can do whatever I want. And this is where you start seeing the the the conundrum or quandary you end up in with going, where do I draw the line of what is right versus who is right? How do I lead by example when I am supposed to be the authority who is exempt from the example? I don't empower by uh ownership or by being the example. I'm gonna go ahead and tell everybody what to do because I'm the police officer who can break the law. I can run red lights, I'm a police officer. I don't have to follow the law. I'm a badge.
SPEAKER_01Rules for them, but not for me.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And now you're starting to see like the pattern on like the authority element that doesn't have ownership, that doesn't have the example or the accountability of being the example. And that's where I think it comes in in play to be able to have somebody like you who can do the mediating or do the part to go, hey, as much as they might be doing something wrong, doesn't mean you're doing something right.
SPEAKER_01Doesn't mean that you're doing everything that you should do. And, you know, again, a lot of people say servant leadership is weak.
SPEAKER_00Wait, people say that who has said that? I've never heard anyone say service.
SPEAKER_01Oh, well, you know, they're there are naysayers, and you kind of go out and you you see all that. I I don't pay them any attention. Uh Robert Greenleaf came up with 10 servant leadership principles that basically he took from the life of Christ, things like the practice stewardship, conceptualization, to be able to see the big picture. Uh you take Blockbuster, Kodak, they really didn't see the big picture, and they're not here anymore. Okay. Um they thought everything was all right, but it really wasn't. And there's other things like awareness, uh, listening, healing, empathy. I tweaked that one a little bit and talked about tactical empathy.
SPEAKER_00I'd like to hear about that one because I I tweaked it too in a different direction, but I want to hear if your definition for tactical empathy is the same thing for the definition I created. What is tactical empathy?
SPEAKER_01It's basically where you you you you do listen with empathy. You have empathy for what other people are going from, but you listen in such a way that you have positive influence on the person. So, yes, you're empathetic, but in such a way that you can have positive influence on a person. A lot of people just hear the word empathy and they they think that it's uh uh that's a real soft uh word. But if you're practice empathy where you're just really listening to what's going on with the individual in such a way that you have a positive influence. Uh, as a mediator, when I'm setting it, and I'm I'm not only actively listening, but I'm watching body language and how people respond to certain things. And it helps me have a positive influence on them. It helps me, in other words, it helps me build rapport with them in such a way that hopefully I hear the words that's right. You understand where I'm coming from, you get what I'm saying. And at that point, during remediation, now I can start to have a positive influence. I'll try to bring out of them a solution that's going to resolve this matter by days in. I'm gonna tell you, I I got the word and the definition from Chris Voss, negotiate as if your life depended on him. Former FBI uh hostage negotiator. Wonderful book. I don't doubt that it's on your shelf. Yeah, I've got to put something. It's on mine. So when I use that in my book, I put it up there, big bo left, Chris Voss. Here it is, and here's why I think that it's important. Here the excuses are that we make not to do it, and here's the excuses we allow other people to say to keep us from doing it, and then I provide ways forward for both sets, both the excuses we make and the excuses we accept from other people, because that kind of provides us a way out of it, and how to move past that and apply that servant leadership principle. Also things like building community and the work.
SPEAKER_00Before I go too far with that, I want to make sure I at least have the idea because I was trying to get the pieces of tactical empathy, but you said listening that has a positive influence on a person. And so um you were showing communication in all areas of being able to be build rapport. You know, you say I watch their nonverbals, which is like their body language, you know. So I'm watching for nonverbal communication, I'm listening to their tonality and listening, how are they speaking and what energy are they bringing with. And then I listen to the words they're saying, even getting to the excuses made, to the excuses accepted element of I want them to feel understood, and I want to be able to understand them, and they want to know that I'm really listening to uh understand. And those are the terminologies that I heard for the tactical empathy.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And when I said, you know, watching the body language, sometimes you could tell by the body language, Rick, that they haven't told you everything. That's still some stuff everybody doesn't tell you on the table that they want to say, but they don't feel comfortable enough saying it. And getting them to the point where they're comfortable enough saying it, because if I can't root out that 99%, I'll never get to the 1% that matters. That's gonna resolve the issue of mediation. So I got to go through the 99%. So in order to do that, I gotta watch that body language, I gotta hear what they say. I need to make sure that they know that I know how they feel. And I'll never 100% because I'm not thib.
SPEAKER_00That's okay. I want to make sure because you actually didn't mention how they feel through the explanation. So, what is the difference from tactical empathy and just regular empathy?
SPEAKER_01Because with intentionality, I'm doing this in a way so that I can have a positive influence on them. Not manipulative.
SPEAKER_00Well, is is regular empathy manipulative?
SPEAKER_01What do you have uh no, no? What is regular empathy? I just wanted to be clear what I say, have a positive influence on them. And I'm not trying to move them toward a particular end. But with empathy, I can I can have empathy for your situation and never tell you what what it is that I'm I'm feeling. Just inside, I I have empathy for that person. I really do.
SPEAKER_00Right. But what is empathy? So that way I can know the I just I still want to know which one is which. So that way I go like, oh no, this is Stan's tactical empathy. This is regular empathy.
SPEAKER_01Having an understanding of appreciation of what the other individual is going through.
SPEAKER_00Okay, understanding and appreciation of what the other person's going through. And they're what they're going through on this one. So if somebody's like, I can understand and I can appreciate what it is that you're going through. And not even necessarily like I appreciate it so much, but just like I can really connect to what it is that you're going through right now. I can feel with you as you feel, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. And doesn't necessarily mean you make it about like, oh, you your puppy died. Well, I remember when my puppy died. Let me tell you about all about my puppy dying. And here's the story of my puppy and my dog, and when I went through it, which is not empathy, right? Because it's not connecting.
SPEAKER_01And it doesn't even mean that I agree with them overall, but what it does be to open myself up to have an understanding of where they are coming from.
SPEAKER_00So on this one, and this is only because I'm really wanting clarity. It's not about a right or wrong thing. It's just like, okay, if empathy is feeling understood and appreciating what somebody is going through, and tactical empathy is listening to have a positive influence on the person, is one more passive and one has more of a direction? Is that what makes it the tactical empathy?
SPEAKER_01I say what is passive, what is interactive.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So the passive element is of like I can be with you while you're going through it. The other one is I'm going to influence in a positive direction to help you through what you're going through.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And kind of going back to like when I lost my job because I was hurt. One of the whistleblowing things, several of them have to do with people getting hurt and losing their job. So I can understand where they're coming from and have that little conversation. My position wasn't yours. I kind of went through something like this. So why don't it's not exactly the same. I get where you're coming from. And so you you you start to make a connection, but you're interactive with them in such a way you have a positive influence so that you get to that little phrase, that's right. You understand me, because until they know that you understand them.
SPEAKER_00Until you have that positive influence, this understanding thing, because empathy is a feeling and understanding is thinking. And so this is where it gets tricky to feel understood. Which is uh it's an interesting paradox, even in in English language, if you think about it. What feeling is understanding? It's not a feeling, that's a thought, right? And so this is a connection through comprehension, not necessarily through the the connection element of it, but a feeling is connection to a thought, which is understanding. And this is why it's it's this is why I'm asking for the semantics.
SPEAKER_01I like that. The the connection to a thought, but that connection to a thought brings about a positive feeling that, okay, this individual gets me. So that there's a good feeling that's associated with the feeling.
SPEAKER_00The feeling is the whole thing, I think it goes back to the thing like no one cares about what you know until they know about how much you care. That whole idea of this. Which is where it's like, I want to understand because if I'm seeking to understand, you feel like I care.
SPEAKER_01And when you do that, Rick, when you're making that intentional focus, don't also the individual you're talking to know that it's not about you, it's about them. When you put that type of focus on that, say, okay, this person's really trying to understand. And I've even had people say that I appreciate how you're taking the time to understand where I'm coming from. You're taking the time to see my viewpoint on this. You're taking the time to hear me out. And you do do a little bit of active listening where you repeat back what they say, again, hoping to get to that point of that's right. You get it you get it, you understand. And I'm doing that in both rooms with the respondent.
SPEAKER_00So you're using the term you understand when it comes to tactile empathy, because when it's about them, you're able to give them the things that make it so it would nurture a dynamic of caring, which would be I give you time, I give you attention, I want to look and see what your perspective is, I want to listen to you so you feel heard, and I want you to know that this is about you, not about me, making it so there's no need for defensiveness, right? Correct. So at the end of it, they go, You're right. That's exactly what I'm saying. Thank you for understanding me.
SPEAKER_01And that's getting that 99% out on the table. And at that point, you start transitioning to the actual what percent of what the issue is really about. Because you're there to put an agreement in place to be able to move on.
SPEAKER_00Good. Now that I understand tactical empathy a little better, now I want to understand, well, what is it now that you're called in for like there's a whistleblower dynamic? There's something like, all right, we need Stan, the man Lewis here. We again, we are not mediating this for shit. We need the guy here. So how do we get Stan involved? Because we got a whistleblower dynamic. Now, I'm going to be Socratic on this one, as well. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. What is a whistleblower situation? So I know what it means.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, two sides of OSHA. What's that OSHA? Pretty much everybody knows about when they see somebody with OSHA coming to workplace, they know they're going to do a safety inspection. So you guys should comply safety officers and industrial hygienists. On the other side, back in 1970, when um they created the whistleblower division, the first statute they gave us is the Osh Act of 1970, Section 11C, and dealt with making a safety-related complaint as a whistleblower and then being fired or having what's called an adverse action taken against you, something that affects the terms and condition of your employment, your money. Congress has seen fit to add 24 more statutes. Um dealing with the railroad, uh, the Federal Railroad Safety Act has a whistleblower provision. Um Sarmay's Oxley with the SEC, uh, companies trade on stock exchange fraud, mail fraud, people blowing the whistle about that. Uh companies, banking companies, you heard about the banking story a few years ago about Wells Fargo making up false accounts. People blew the whistle on that. Some of them got fired, they come to OSHA. So it seems like we do for a lot of different agencies, we we do whistleblowing for them. And usually when anything comes out, uh it's handed over to us. And so we do the whistleblower investigation. So we open up an investigation, we notify the company that John Doe has filed a complaint against XYZ company, and the investigation begins. If we find that, yes, there was a violation, then uh there are civil procedures that OSHA can go through regarding the company. Um, but a lot of times companies don't want to be investigated by OSHA. So OSHA created uh alternative, I mean, alternative dispute resolution program in pretty much all their regions. And I was the ADR coordinator for OSHA Region 6, which was Texas. Uh Louisiana, Oklahoma, and New Mexico.
SPEAKER_00What is I don't know what that part is. So if people are doing the whistleblower uh safety complaints and get fired for trying to, you know, let's assume you're right, they're telling the truth or even what I'm sure the companies will call a tattletale or anarch or whatever. Oh, yeah. That happens. But then you said there's a way to get around this, which is your department. And maybe I don't understand what that means. I don't want to go through OSHA stuff, so how do I get around it?
SPEAKER_01A party can settle at any time. During the investigative process, the parties, the company and employee can settle at any time. So creating an alternative dispute resolution program allows the parties to step out of the investigation into alternative dispute resolution and allow a mediator to work with them to resolve the issue. If they're able to resolve it, come up with a settlement agreement. And OSHA approves the settlement agreement, the case gets closed. So let me understand what this would be then.
SPEAKER_00So let's say I know that these people are doing, let's just use the Wells Fargo, they're making false accounts and doing bullshit. I know they're lying and cheating and stealing and doing bad things. And I blow the whistle and they fire me. And I go, Stan, this is wrong what they're doing. You get involved, and they want to do an alternate dispute resolution. They want to go, I want to go the alternate weight and I want to settle. And I'm like, well, if you give me $100,000, then I won't look that I'll just ignore all the bad things that you're doing, or what's the settlement for?
SPEAKER_01It's basically what we call a big hole remedy. Let me explain that. So basically, uh back pay and front pay and compensatory damages, meaning for pain and suffering. For a lot of these cases, Rick, there's case law out there of other cases that have gone before an administrative law judge. And I would make myself very knowledgeable about those cases so that when I come in and I'd have somebody, they're making $15 an hour and they're asking for $3 million. You know, I'm able to go pull up a piece of case law and say, hey, listen, on your best day, here's a court case of somebody similar to you. They they want, but this is all they got. Chances are they were making more than you are, so how's a company supposed to do that? And so I would work with them, and they'd have to work through that.
SPEAKER_00Uh they may feel like it's a $3 billion case, but this is this seems like a really tricky area to play in because there's so much greed, and the whole system is greed and lying and deception and murdery and manipulation and getting away with bad things. The entire industry on this one seems like I got a I got a bad feeling about this. Because how like I understand back pay and front pay. We can monetize that pretty quickly. That's ours, that what it would have been, what it should have been, what it could have been. We can those are numbers. We can look at the numbers, right? But pain and suffering, hmm, how much is pain and suffering worth? And now I'm gonna try and go for three million when I understand on my best year is gonna be like 30 grand. So I'm like, uh, can I times that by like a hundred? Like, this is where like how many.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, this is why I get the 99% out of the way. Okay, you understand where I'm coming from. I get that from both sides, so now we can talk about how to resolve this. Hey, I understand you were seriously done wrong. Uh however, you know, give you an example. What one guy he wanted $40,000 in uh paid paid of suffering. No, what no, I'll take it back. He wanted $400.
SPEAKER_00I'm sure he did.
SPEAKER_01I said, okay. And you know, I said, hey, the company said, Stan, you you gotta help us on this. All right. So, you know, did my research, come in there, come in there, ready. Say, guy, at most, in your situation, hear similar cases to yours. And I talked with the attorney and the complainant. I said, look, at most, $40,000, $50,000. So they say, okay, well, we'll come down to $50,000 is a whole lot better than $400,000.
SPEAKER_00Well, now even just there, wouldn't that tell you a lot about the person you're talking with?
SPEAKER_01Uh the the thing is, is I'm I'm there to be a neutral, not a judge.
SPEAKER_00Well, no, no. What I'm saying is like without you having to do judgment, you can tell that this person's pretty keen on exploitation.
SPEAKER_01Not necessarily. Some time when you see all the attorneys on TV talking about the tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands that people have made for their court cases and stuff like that. People don't know what they don't know. And I usually find for the most case, Rick, when you sit down and you show them what's occurred in similar situations, people are fairly reasonable. Now, the ones that are unreasonable, say that there's no way that they're going to do it, they usually lose out in the end. They get there, sometimes they actually go to court and get less than what they could have gotten if they'd have gone ahead and settled it in mediation. And so they find out in the end, but most people I find to be most complainants pretty understandable, and even companies, because I used to save case law to company, because the company only wanted to give $500 for pain and suffering. I said, well, use this and so they both agreed that what was in the case law was a reasonable amount.
SPEAKER_00This is this one, not like I'm I think it's cool that you're able to like, we just got to everyone's shut the fuck up. I got all of you guys, stop it. Like, I'm with you there. And the result of it, I'm with you on. But I'm still being, you know, I'm still ignorant to some of these areas. I'm like, what does that mean and why this? Like, if I said, hey, I went through something very difficult because I watched these people at this company do something so damn wrong, it's messed up. Like, that's a bad company doing bad things and hurting a lot of people doing bad stuff. And then they fired me. So I want my back pay and my front pay. Okay, cool, I'm with you there. But then I got fired for them doing something bad. What settlement is that including an NDA? Like, what's going on with my settlement here? Why am I not going? Do you know how corrupt this place is, even after I got my settlement pay? So is that a part of my pain and suffering pay? Is my hush money too? Because I'm kind of curious on why these people will go, I want my $400,000. And you're like, well, that's compared to other people's stuff, which I don't know why that's there, by the way. Because they're pain and suffering, or is it slash NDA? Shut up. Like, you don't tell people about what Wells Fargo is doing. Don't do that.
SPEAKER_01There, there, there is a settlement agreement where they agree to close the complaint. Um, there are some things that the solicitor of labor, who are the Department of Labor attorneys, will not allow to be in an agreement. And non-disclosure agreements, uh, I guess a little bit more technical because that could end up costing the company a little bit more money.
SPEAKER_00So we call it a close the complaint agreement.
SPEAKER_01It's basically a settlement agreement, and that closes the complaint.
SPEAKER_00What's the difference from a close the complaint than saying don't talk about it?
SPEAKER_01The it closes the complaint, and usually within the agreement, both sides agree not to speak about it.
SPEAKER_00So it is a non-disclosure. We just don't call it one.
SPEAKER_01It's a way around the It is a non-disclosure agreement, absolutely, without a doubt.
SPEAKER_00So what do we do about this whole truth about people doing bad stuff thing that we got fired for?
SPEAKER_01Well, here's the thing. If there's a when we go to close the case or when we open up a case and say it's a railroad-related case, we've contacted the Federal Railroad Administration about what it is that we're doing. All right. So the Federal Railroad Administration can certainly proceed forward and do what they're going to do. If it's an environmental whistleblower case, the EPA, yep, we let them know we opened up a case of this, and they certainly can go and do criminal investigation, civil investigation. But the whistleblower complaint is closed. It will say, well, stay a why close it? If it goes all the way to court, it's going to cost both sides time and money.
SPEAKER_00And if you're a complaint, I think I'm just trying to understand the job itself. Like this is where, you know, again, I don't know anything about this field, so I'm very much learning. So I'm trying to understand the idea. Like they would call in the alternate dispute resolution person to make sure that we can make sure there's fairness here. You know, there must be fair. This is is it fair or not fair? Which, of course, back pay, front pay. That part we can be fair. That's easy work, right? Pain and suffering, subjective. So now it's gonna get complicated. Very, but then also I have to close the complaint. And so, how much to get you to close the complaint? I want to settle as low as possible as a business owner to be able to get shit. And then I have to now deal with who I'm assuming too, some of these other people, and this is maybe just me being cynical, so you can go ahead and check me on this if I'm wrong. But if now the environmental person's coming in here to check on this, well, I can grease that poem real quick. It's way easier than the whistleblower poem. Because that guy got wrong by me, by his account. But you know, hey, quit being a tattletale, right? But this guy, I can go, yeah, here's here's a hundred grand for you, just be quiet. And he's like, I see no problems here, sir.
SPEAKER_01It is it is in effect a non-disclosure agreement.
SPEAKER_00Hmm. So this is where it's tricky, where like you may be doing the the mediation to keep everybody from making it a bigger, bigger problem, but it really is just an element of going, hmm, how much money does it cost for you to shut up?
SPEAKER_01There's that, Rick, but there's also um there there are a lot of cases. We in our region alone, we we were approaching about 2,000 complaints a year. And so you get those, and those can take a long time to be investigated. Then when they go to court for litigation, that could take a year and a half, two years, three years, or more. And it could a lot of it can be appealed and it goes on and on. And on the cheap, if you're gonna litigate a case, you're probably talking 40 grand at least on the cheap.
SPEAKER_00And then you're for the person who's got to go through for the company.
SPEAKER_01For the person, if you're out of a job and you're applying for a new job and they ask you about your job history, you got to put down that you were let go by the other company, or else you're lying on your application and you can lose your job later on down the road. So there's value to the complainant in getting a neutral reference written into the agreement so that if somebody calls the employer and says, Hey, I see John Doe work for you. Yes, they work for me from this day to this date. And what type of employee? We only give a neutral reference.
SPEAKER_00So they're paying for a neutral reference also. So times. A lot of times that comes with the agreement. So they don't want a neutral reference. So they're like, yeah, the guy worked here. Like, was he a good worker? He worked here. Like, but was he was what kind of worker was he? He was one that was here.
SPEAKER_01Like that's for a lot of companies. A lot of companies these days only give a neutral reference. Uh, I had an individual, he he didn't care about backpair, anything. He had a job lined up. Well, to be able to apply for that job without say that he was terminated. And so he told me that that's what he wanted. This whole thing. I just go to the company because I'm a neutral.
SPEAKER_00This is a term credit. It's like credit report companies. It's it's such a weird system of like rules that don't make any damn sense to try to let people have livelihood.
SPEAKER_01It's the it's the system that it is, because employers want to know who it is that they got working for, so they will reach out to the other company.
SPEAKER_00It is if you want to know the truth, I can pay for the lie. And that's why it's confusing to me. Is I want to pay for a neutral reference because I told the truth on you, you didn't like it, you got in trouble, fired me. Now I have to go through a settlement to try and get you to go ahead and at least be neutral when you were the one wrong, just so I can get a job somewhere else based on your recommendation, and you're a liar.
SPEAKER_01That's a confusing system for me. In some of the instances, yes, where there was actual whistleblowing. And yes, if a company was being dishonest, yeah, I'd have to say just to be honest, that that's what's happening. But that is the system that we have, Rick. And uh I would get in, like I said, I I would help the parties come to an agreement that both sides could agree to. I want a real question for you, Stan.
SPEAKER_00Just based on that by itself. It sounds like you're in an industry where you try to bring peace to a bunch of people who love to create chaos. That's what it sounds like.
SPEAKER_01There is a lot of in employment law, there is a lot of chaos.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot of chaos out here. Let me ask you, I want a real question for you. Okay, how would you try to make this system if you go like we can fix this? Like, here's how I you guys don't lie on this, we can't do this. No, we're not scamming the system on this. This has to be done the right way. You have experience here that I do not have. How would you go if I was able to say we have to fix the system? What would you change? Or at least, like the biggest thing that grinds stands gears. What would you say this thing has to go? Because that's nonsense.
SPEAKER_01Not what has to go, what needs to come in play. Communication. Because a long time before you got to the whistleblower situation, there was a lack of communication in such a way where management and employee actually connected. And I kind of talked about some of these in my book because you you have leaders that weren't able to see the big picture. You you have leaders who you got a truck driver. And this is uh uh this is before I got into ADR. So you got a group of truck drivers, and they're getting written up for reporting being sick. That's illegal. You can't do that. So what guy to keep from being written up has the flu over a hundred degree temperature, comes in because he doesn't want to be written up, gets in his truck, passes out. They take him to the hospital in an ambulance. He's off for two days. He gets a half point for the day that the ambulance took him to the hospital, he gets a point off for the days he's at home. And as an investigator, I came in and told the company you can't do that. Well, you got lower level management, okay, ego. Well, we've established a company policy that uh if you call this sick, this is what we're gonna do. And I say, well, your policy uh doesn't supersede federal law and federal regulation. So we had them change it. But in that instance, you had lower-level management not thinking and their ego getting in the way instead of hearing the situation. Now, wait a minute. If we put a guy with 100 degree temperature and he was out there driving on the road at 60 miles an hour and he passed out, we'd be in a whole lot bigger problem. See, they weren't able to conceptualize and see the bigger picture. They weren't applying forethought. They definitely weren't building community in the workplace and they were good stewards of their people. All those servant leadership principles here that are not in play. And they're making excuses not to put those principles into play and it causes problems in the workplace. So if there's a single deal, communicate to connect.
SPEAKER_00So this is tricky because I like I love the idea of communication and connection. But what do you do when trust and truth isn't even a part of communication and connection? Like this person whose ego is their amigo, they're gonna follow policies that were made to screw over their own people, where you're like, even federal law doesn't enforce this, this is wrong. And being able to have people who are now um punishing people for something as simple as an uncontrollable element like sickness.
SPEAKER_01To be a leader and stand up for what's I mean, it's free black and white. There's the law and there's what you got right there. And being the type of leader that looks out for their people, and they've communicated to them an issue, they go back to the upline to say, here's a policy, here's a statute.
SPEAKER_00So this is where it's tricky because it's it's what is right. We want to do the right thing, right? And we try to create laws to try to enforce, do what is right. But some of these policies and laws may not necessarily go with what is right based on a moral compass because people seem to have a very different moral compass here. And so it's like, well, the morality of it seems to be a little bit more situational than we would like it to be.
SPEAKER_01Well, it may cost you as a boss to stand up, and we would have whistleblower protectors come in who wore egg badge, but who did the right thing and said, you know, we're not gonna go against the law, and got fired. And then here we go. Now, chances are many types, what's their space settlement? They don't go back to the company. Okay, they're just gonna split and they move on.
SPEAKER_00What happens to these ego managers? What happens is you guys come in here and there's people who are deliberately doing wrong things. Like they're deliberately, like openly firing people, openly hurting people under policy, and they're openly breaking federal law in order to do so. What happens to these people?
SPEAKER_01A lot of times they stay, they stay in put. And to be fair, and I definitely want to be fair, it's not all company managers. Sometimes it's all I'm just gonna do.
SPEAKER_00Oh, no, no, no, just a bad one.
SPEAKER_01No, no, because there'll be people out here go, he didn't say anything about the employees. So I'm just gonna put this out here that there are instances where the employees have lost their mind. Um in a case that didn't come to ADRs before he got to the program, uh, a worker just could not stand their boss. And so got together with another individual, concocted a story to set the boss up. And I said, okay, and it sounded bad too. Oh, it sounded bad. It sounded like he had a case until I went to the complainant and I said, and I say what I always, whenever I take a statement from a witness, I said, You ever heard of Martha Stewart? Yeah, you know what she got in trouble for? Well, inside a training, dog. She got in trouble for lying to a federal investigator, and I don't want you to have Martha Stewart issues and go to jail for lying to a federal investigator, so you need to tell me the truth. The guy said, Well, if that's the case, I'm just gonna tell you right now because I'm not going to jail for this guy. He made the whole thing up. And let me tell you, Rick, I had to like, okay, I had to throw my whole investigative plan, ball it up in my head, throw it in the trash, and come up with an investigative plan on the fly and ask a series of questions. And I went back and I confronted the guy, and he withdrew his complaint because he also had an EEOC complaint. I said, Well, if I file this, you know their attorneys are going to get this. Well, he won't do. I can file it or you can withdraw it. I leave it totally up to you. He said he wanted to withdraw it. I lifted up a set of papers, slid out two sheets already pre-paid. He decided we closed it. Then I went upstairs and told the badge, but he withdrew his complaint. They were shocked. And then we went on down the line. Now, situations like that, they happen. I only gave one. Can I do that? But there are multiple that it happened.
SPEAKER_00Let me tell you what I think you should have done. I think you should have said, here is the uh here's the punishment that comes with it. Here's the Martha Stewart thing that's about to happen to you. But if you can go the rest of the year without getting in trouble, we can get rid of this thing. And then that way you can be a good employee and we can throw. This thing out the window, and you're good to go. What do you think?
SPEAKER_01Well, now the employer could have done that. I had a choice. Either I go forward with the case or um my supervisor would have got up to me. But I'm just getting the thing that we do with the kids. He and his union rep were not happy with me, but he did it, he did it to himself.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so our system is not perfect.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01I am curious. But what we try to do is within the system that we have, try to make peace between the parties so that both sides can move on. Generally, it's prop it most people don't go back to work for the same company. Now I've had it 42 times where they did, but a lot of times, I mean, I I had almost working with parties, almost 700 settlements. So you can see the number of settlements compared to the number of people that went back to work.
SPEAKER_00It's no all's. But I'm I am I am there are there are some of these policy eagle monsters that will just do harm. They will just do raw damage. They they feel like their entitlement of their position and their authority alleviates them from any accountability of self-leading and they just do harm. And if you guys are involved and somebody really is doing harm, I am curious as to why there is no sort of like, hey, the employee can get into it, but this employer or this manager what correction or what training or what teaching happens to make it so that we stop doing this cycle?
SPEAKER_01Well, I will tell you, uh the different federal agencies that we do the whistleblower for our partners, uh nothing keeps them from coming, and they have come out despite we have the civil thing taken care of and uh come out there, you know, the FAA under their regulations, Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration under their regulations, go after a trucking company. Uh, you know, they showed up on their radar and it opened them up to where they said, oh, okay, well, you resolve that, but we're seeing other issues here and go in and take care of those. Our own agency, OSHA, you know, yep, we may settle, but that will keep the compliance safety and health officers uh coming out doing an inspection and issuing fines for uh a safe workplace just because you had a whistleblower settlement over here. But it is an element that, okay, the company at least gets to set that aside and we'll we'll deal with the we'll deal with the agency rather than having both.
SPEAKER_00So somebody else would have to deal with like you got bad at somebody.
SPEAKER_01It happens with that. It happens, and then sometimes the agency may look over there and say, okay, such and such kind of got spanked enough with what they paid out in the settlement agreement, because I've I've had some climb upwards to near a billion dollars. And they would say, okay, well, that that looked like that handled that situation. And you know, it's so they pay or pay not.
SPEAKER_00You're in a weird world, man. Like, this is crazy scenarios. Like, these are crazy things to be in. Like, well, this would be where I'd be like, well, this guy got a million dollars. And this would be like you can almost use past settlements to call them both sides down. Like, listen, employer, you're being a jerk to people who are telling the truth on you, and you want to try and scam them, but this guy got a million dollars out of it. So you may want to chill out on this and then go to the other guy and go, hey, your past pay, your future pay, all that stuff, but this guy only got 40 grand, so maybe you're being a little out of control here. And then I can check on it.
SPEAKER_02It kind of goes on with that baby.
SPEAKER_01Excuse me, the rustling you hear down here is my service animal talking to me. Oh, yeah. And she's trying to get my titch.
SPEAKER_00You better not have any health issue right now. I'm gonna be serious with you. It's not a health issues immediately.
SPEAKER_01It's no, no, it's it's getting to her D-I-N-N-E-R.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I see what we're doing here. This dang Rick guy. You want to break a curse, get me dinner.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. So that's the pawing and the jumping that you hear because she's trying to get my attention. Okay, Reese, girl. Down. I see you. I see you, I know that you're there. No. Down. Down.
SPEAKER_00I love it. As a service dog, she's like, I need you to be of service right now and serve me dinner.
SPEAKER_01I will get you outside and and a D-I-N-N-E-R here in a moment. But uh and that's just kind of the world there, but you know, I appreciate you asking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I just didn't know. I really don't. And so, you know, I'm just more an ignorant element. I don't work in that world at all. But I'm just trying to go off of like, well, as a child, I'd be like, why does that make sense? Like it just some of it's very confusing because it's like you guys are supposed to be grown-ups. We're not doing communication for connection. People are lying, which makes communication not work because what do you do when I'm communicating with somebody I don't believe a word they're saying? How do I connect with a liar? Well, you can't because it's not them, and so they're not true. So you can't do communication and connection with somebody who doesn't have truth and trust. It doesn't, it's not possible. So we can go understand.
SPEAKER_01I still do private mediation. So if there's anybody out in your audience and they got a whistleblower could play, they don't want to wait months to get it taken care of or years, you can reach out to me because I can help you and the company resolve your issues.
SPEAKER_00Is is that what the okay, just so I can make sure I serve you before you do a D-I-N-N-E-R. Um for this one, do you want people to reach out for the whistleblowing or do you want people to work more in some of the on the mediations because yes, because I can't open a whistleblower complaint even as ADR coordinator, I could be.
SPEAKER_01You would have to contact me directly. Are you national or or just still down the house? I I'll mediate anywhere in uh Cottonville, the 50 states. Uh you know, I'm a certified mediator. I can serve in any area. Uh primarily my concentration is in employment law. So EEOC, NLRB, uh what's blower complaints under OSHA. Um the company can reach out to me uh at standlewis.net backslash home. Got a little form there, little comment deal. Stan, come talk to me about ADR, help me out. If you're a law firm out there or you're an employee or employer, I can save them a lot of money, uh, Rick. I I save companies in the course of my career over $28 billion in litigation costs.
SPEAKER_00You're good from both sides here.
SPEAKER_01So I I do it for both sides and uh help a lot of people get their job back. Um, you know, about over $25 billion returned to complainants in uh damages. So I help out both sides, and it both kind of works out to me about about what I saved the company and what complainants against. So that and uh because I know our time's kind of running short here, I I do want to let people know because first of all, Rick, this has been hands down, serious hands down, one of the best interview sessions I had because this is like really conversation, breaking stuff down, uh, not glossing over stuff, digging deep, getting down into information. I appreciated that because I've I've had a little bit of a growth spurt here. So thank you. I appreciate it. I got to attend the masterclass on myself in the process of this. So I want to thank you now. Everybody listening to this podcast, partaking of it. Don't stop listening because this man is bringing this type of content to you all the time. So uh if this is your first time listening, keep listening. If you've been listening, uh continue to do so. But Rick, if you don't mind, I'd like to let them know because a lot of my mediation stuff, I put into what I've learned, I put into my book, Evicted Doubts, Squatting Rick Free in Your Mind. It's out there, it's all servant leadership, and the excuses that we make and excuses we allow other people to make to keep us from being the servant leader that we are. Uh you can be a servant leader. Everybody has potential to be a leader. But only if you, but you don't, if you stop yourself or you allow other people to stop you from doing it. And I would love to come back on, Rick, and talk to you about that process of grieving, of how people just really keep themselves with the doubt and the limiting belief that there's stuff in their past they won't let go that keeps them locked into place and like a baby elephant tethered to a stake growing up. I can't break it. Yeah, you can break it. And I'm glad, Rick, that you do that with people with anxiety and fear. As a curse breaker, you uproot things. That's what he told me, people. He says he'll go in there and just do some trimming. He uproots. And I love the way you do that. And I would love the opportunity to come back and talk about limiting beliefs and doubts, imposter syndrome, and negative self-talk, and how that keeps us from living out our potential.
SPEAKER_00I'll tell you what, Stan. If you want to do that, we'll play, we'll play a fun game. We'll do something cool, okay? So if you come back on, I'll have you interview me. Done, my friend. We could do that. Sound fun? Sounds fun. Awesome. That'll be very cool. Well, I know that you got dinner you gotta go put together, but it's been such an honor, Stan. So anybody out there whose boss is doing some nonsense, you're gonna you're gonna tell on him because it's the right thing to do. You get fired, call Stan. He's your man. He'll make sure you're good. And if you got employees who are just straight up lying and you gotta get this settled up right, call Stan. That's your man. But otherwise, let's put the link to your book. Let's get people to check out what it is that you've really learned and grown through. And then next time we hang out, why don't you interview me on limiting beliefs, doubts, and helping people go through some of the hardest things. And I'll show you how to rip some roots out. And I hope that you can help some more people out with it.
SPEAKER_01Hey, baby, we could do that like a new year endeavour, my friend. Would that be cool to have people start their year off right?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'll tell you what, get your questions ready. Like, write out some good questions to and and don't play softball with me. I play in the deep end. So hit me with hardball questions. Don't underhand with me. Give me the fastballs, and I'll show you how to hit some home runs, okay?
SPEAKER_02All right there, brother. All right. Appreciate you. Much love to you.