178. The importance of self-awareness and inner truth with Dr. Stephen Paul Edwards

In this episode, Dr. Stephen Paul Edwards shares his profound journey through trauma, relationships, and self-discovery. He explores the metaphors of the Venus flytrap, attachment, and healing, offering valuable insights for personal growth and overcoming narcissistic dynamics. In this episode, Dr. Stephen Paul Edwards and Rick Yee explore the depths of human consciousness, belief systems, and the path to healing. They discuss how to identify and rewire core patterns, the importance of inner trust, and practical steps for transformation.

Here is the Books Purchase link for your audience:  

• https://www.amazon.com/Venus-Fly-Trap-Lies-Repercussions/dp/B0FR7BYYYN
• https://www.amazon.com/Venus-Fly-Trap-Enough-Never/dp/B0GLNMCFYS

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

How do you learn who you really are? It's not found in books. It's found on the battlefield. Alright, what's up, Warriors? Welcome back to Battlefield of the Mind. I'm hanging out with Dr. Stephen Paul Edwards today, and we're gonna let him do what everybody else does. Tell us who you are, what you do, and what you're about, and I can't wait to hear more about it.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yeah, I know. I always wonder, do people really care? I mean, you know, I'm here to talk about how uh, you know, I went through a pretty uh toxic relationship and uh what I learned from that, and uh maybe some of the things that uh we pull out in this conversation can help you, or maybe we're just gonna entertain you. Either way, it's gonna be fun. That's that's my thought.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

I actually do think uh there's a good point. On um, do you remember there was a show a long time ago, Tom Lycas? I actually really enjoyed the way he would do his thing because it's very natural for people to go like, hey Steven, how are you doing? And he would just go, Do you really do you really care? Like, do you want to go?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Or are you just asking? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

And most people would be like, I was just asking, I really don't care about it. Exactly. So we're skipping it. Can you in this case?

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah, can you imagine though if you just started saying, Well, actually, my mom's ill and I got a really bad leg, and then people just completely turn up. All right, but you're gonna lead to a little bit more detail of background in my life.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

In in this case, though, I actually do care. So I do want to know. And anybody who's here is gonna care too. So if they're hanging out here, they're like, Do I want to spend the next hour, two hours, three hours listening to this guy? Yeah, let's see, because they care.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Okay, my background, maybe not. I always think it's gonna come out of the conversation, but let's do it. So I was born in Blackpool, England, right? Which is uh, as I say to people, is a good place to be from, right? Um, and I grew up there, had a very traumatic childhood. And I say very because nobody really cares about that, because everybody had a very traumatic childhood in my my experience. But how traumatic it is is really our interpretation of it, right? But for me, uh it was traumatic. And of course, we think we're the only one when we're going through it because we don't go to school and get all our buddies together in the playground and go, hey man, is your is your life at home really bad too? Are you going through trauma, right? So we want to talk about it. We're embarrassed. And so uh, you know, I say that nothing ever happens to you in this life, everything happens for you. But as a child, you don't know that, right? And as far as you're concerned, you really are a victim because you don't have any say in what your parents tell you to do, the the beliefs they pour on you, or your experience at home. And I felt that, you know. So um my parents were very controlling, a lot of gaslighting, a lot of um uh situations where you didn't feel like you could speak, or you know, I didn't just feel like I was walking on uh on eggshells, I felt like I was walking on glass, right? So I when I went to bed, I used to have to bang my head on the pillow until I was exhausted to actually get to sleep. It's the only way I can get to sleep. And I used to make this weird noise as well. Uh so uh I felt like it was in a straitjacket. So it's not probably any irony that by the time I was 16, I was in a mental asylum, right? So I went through all that, had uh electro-convulsive therapy, um, and then went through other traumas of school which were difficult to get through. Anyway, so I carried all this stuff through my life um with guilt and shame, uh and only living half a life because I couldn't tell anybody about those things, and so I was hiding. I was running away from those things, and I was hiding from them. And of course, as you know, those things show up in your life, those patterns show up in your life in all areas of your life. So I all I wanted to do when I was a kid was run away from home. So I did, and I ran away eight times, but they caught me every time because I wasn't very good at it. And then when I finally got away from home, I just kept running, man. I just kept going. I didn't necessarily realize that consciously, obviously, but I was. And across the street from where I lived as a kid, there was a dog that lived in this garden, right? And he was a little terrier, right? So this little terrier had a Napoleon syndrome, right? He thought he was gonna fight every dog, right? And so when cars would go by, he'd chase him down the street, you know? And of course, the car was going away anyway, but in the dog's mind, he chased the car away. And the car was running away from him because he was the big dog. Anyway, one day he's chasing this car down the road, and for whatever reason the car stopped abruptly. So, of course, the dog ran into the back of the car and it whimpered. It was really hurt, right? So it began running the other way. And you go, Well, what was it running from? It was running from the pain. It thought if it ran fast enough, it could outrun the pain. And that was a great metaphor for me. I was running away and I would throw myself into whatever I was doing because it was a distraction. It meant I didn't have to look back. I didn't have to face myself. I didn't have to face my past. So these motivating factors caused me to really throw myself into whatever I did, and I'd get really good at it, and I made a lot of money, I was successful. But it wasn't, that wasn't really why I did it, and it didn't make me happy, right? And so what would happen is, as you know, you can put your will into the world and you can change it for a certain amount of time. But it's freaking exhausting, right? And so when you put you're putting yourself into it for 14, 16, 18 hours a day, you can't keep that up. And so eventually you burn out. It all implodes, you take a break, you don't want to do that anymore, and you just go out and do it again. So this was a pattern I did over and over again. So that's kind of my past. Um, I've been through four marriages, so that just shows you as well, running away, right? The same thing appears in every area of my life, and that's what patterns do, right? So um, so now and this, and then I got in this relationship, which was totally crazy, and this is what the book is about the Venus flytrap, sex lights, and repercussions. Because finally the universe sat me on my ass and said, Okay, now you're gonna really re- now you're gonna learn some real stuff, right? And so this beautiful former supermodel comes in my life initially, I think, because she's the greatest thing ever to happen to me. And she is, and she was, but in a different way than I first thought. You know, as Carl Jung would say, there's no coincidences, these relationships come in your life for a reason, for you to explore your shadow self, whether it's, you know, the dark man or the whatever it is. Um, and they're a gift. And when you can see them that way, um, they become very empowering. And so she came into my life as a gift, as a master teacher. I'm very blessed for that. And the fact that I've been able to take the lessons from it and heal myself. I mean, no one's fully healed, right? We're all in the process, but I'm certainly a lot longer, a lot longer along the journey to discovering and being who I really am because of her. So I'm very grateful uh to her for that. So I don't know, is that is that a reasonable out uh uh uh uh intro?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

It's your intro. If you feel if you feel like that's authentic.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

I don't have an intro, man, but I that's that's just what came out. I thought that might be interesting to some people.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah, it sounds good. And so then it gets into obviously the questions like all right, distraction from pain, you're running, you're doing uh you know, fight, flight, freeze, fawns, all the control mechanisms around grieving. And so you said I've had to grieve, I've got to grieve this stuff. I've I'm trying to figure out a system, I'm doing a system that would at least give me money, but I was still trying to figure shit out. During your burnout system, I'm burning myself out, burning myself out, burning myself out. You're also burning out relationships, four marriages down, which is heavy and expensive. Like that's a lot to lose. And now I'm still grieving because now I'm creating a whole new set of grief inside my other system of what I figured out how not to grieve, and now I'm revealing the weak spots, which leads you to this supermodel teacher who is now teaching you about the Venus flytrap. And so now let's get in towards like probably somewhere in between like, okay, so how did you do the grief towards authenticity to heal to help people get out of that, leading up to the application or lessons from the book?

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Yeah, well, she wasn't teaching me about the Venus flytrap, she was the Venus flytrap, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Oh, I gotcha, and I heard it.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Well, and what I mean by that is the irony is she named herself. And the reason the way she did that was kind of strange. But it goes to, you know, people tell you who they are within the first few minutes of you meeting them, right? So I'm online and I'm trying to get a date with her, right? Uh initially all I could get was a coffee date, right? Which is not really a date, but that that was about as far as I could go. Anyway, and then she one day she uh she agreed to go for a coffee, the next day she cancelled on sheets. So then I have to get her to go on a date. But when I got so finally get her to go uh uh agree to go on a date with me, but I want to tie it down, right? I want to I want to get a cancellation again, right? So I said to her as I'm texting her, I said, by the way, what's your favorite flower? You know, indicate I'm gonna get her some flowers, right? So she tasted back uh Bird of Paradise and I texted back, no, no, mine too. And then I said, It's a bit expensive though, so what's your second favorite? Now, there's a joke, obviously it's a joke, right? She tasted back Venus flytrap instantly, no delay. Now, who asks someone what your second favorite flower is? Nobody, right? So I would never have known that if I had not joked with her. But what feeling did he give me? My intuition went boom, right? She's dangerous, right? But my ego said, Yeah, she's also really cute, and I like a bit of danger, right? So I knew from the very beginning because she said the Venus flytrap. Now it just ended up being a perfect metaphor for the book, because she was trying to chap trap me from the beginning and devour me. And I was the fly just trying to get away, right? But it's also a great metaphor for life. The world is the Venus flight trap. And we're trying to not get captivated, captivated by its nectar, right? By the material world, by the things that it wants to draw you into to keep you inside the Venus flytrap or the jaw of the Venus flytrap. And we're constantly trying to get away. Or not. Yeah, so that's that. So that's where the flytrap came from.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

A couple different directions. We can either I I I'll be open with you. I'm a lot less interested in how hot this girl is, and more interested in this metaphor for the world is the Venus flytrap. I'm like, okay, so what do you mean by the world's the the trap? Because I mean, like, I gotta hear your perspective. There's a point of view you have I don't have.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Yeah, well, uh it's very interesting and important that she was so beautiful because that's what drew me in, right? Because people say, well, you know, you had 20 years' experience as a spiritual counselor and in personal development.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

What I mean is is the beauty of this girl in conjunction to the metaphor of the world is the trap.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

Yeah, it is. It's the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

Assumptive attentions for the world. I'm like, maybe. So this is why I want to see your perspective.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So I'm trying to give it to you, if you let me, right? So I'm giving you this perspective that she being beautiful is very important because we're attracted to what the world has to offer in the same way. We're lured into what we think is beautiful, which is a trap. We think we want a car, and we think we think we want a house. Whatever the material world has to give you is what we're lured into, and we would consider that to be beautiful. So that's where they match together, right? So that's how they are the same metaphor. And the nectar of the Venus flytrap, which draws the fly in and confuses it and stays there, the nectar of the material world is that the material things in life that we're attracted to and we think we want and we believe will make us happy, but of course they never do.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

So are you getting into the intentionality of it? Because like cars are still cool, and you know, there's people who are really beautiful, but they're not necessarily a trap. And there are things that are fun to do, that doesn't necessarily mean it's trying to get you. So I mean, like, is it intentionality that makes a difference?

SPEAKER_02 13:02

What I would say is this look, it's what attracted you that ends up destroying you, right? It can be, it doesn't have to be. Of course, having a car is not a bad thing, right? But everybody isn't attached to their car, right? It's the attachment, really. But what lures you in is the beauty of it because you think it's beautiful, right? You think the car's beautiful, but then you become attached to it. And attachment means when you think whatever that material thing is or that person is taken away, you will be worth less, right? That's attachment, right? It's like the saying, you know, it's more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to slip through the eye of the needle. And people misunderstand that, thinking that being rich is wrong. There's nothing wrong with being rich. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of money, but a lot of rich men think they are their possessions and therefore they are possessed by them. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Oh no, I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm just curious on your perspective on it. So you're saying it's the attraction attachment that has an identity linked to now that they have it, or if they get it, their worth or their value comes from the possession or the object or the property, and that makes it so that if they were to lose that now, they will lose their identity and lose all their things, and this becomes something to protect or something to uh it has to be protected because it's fear-based now. Now I don't want to lose it, I don't want to lose it, I don't want to lose it. But again, if your worth or your value comes from things or external validation, then of course it's easy for it to be destructed or deconstructed because it's not true. It's it's borrowed or it's taken from others in order to find your worth, no different than I don't know, Gucci bag or uh, you know, a Tom Ford suit. Like these things are like that's just somebody else's name, but you're borrowing worth from something. But if your value comes from objects or items, then your whole worth is a depreciating asset.

SPEAKER_02 15:00

It can be, yeah. As you said, it can be. It doesn't have to be. I mean, I've I I've bought Tom Ford jeans and never even known that Tom Ford was anybody. I just bought it because I liked him, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Because the Well, he doesn't even work there anymore, so that's why it's funny.

SPEAKER_02 15:13

Well, I'm not even funny about it. It doesn't really matter whether he works there. It was just I liked the jeans, right? I had no idea who Tom Ford was, that he was a clothing designer and his history. I had no idea. I just went into a store, tried on a pair of jeans, and I liked him, and so I bought them. That's my point, right? So it doesn't have to be that you're attached. I didn't think, oh, I gotta have a pair of Tom Ford jeans. Um but let's face it, the vast majority of people, certainly in Americans, certainly in America, are um attached to that stuff. It's like, you know, they've got to have the designer label, they've got it, like you said, a Gucci bag and a mez bag or whatever it is, um, or the Lamborghini or whatever it is, that is what draws us in.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

What do you think the attachment is to then? What do you think, like just your just your opinion? Like they're attached to this then. This is where it goes off the rails. Like the idea itself of trying to get whatever they want from it, whether it be loved or be long or to be approved of or be whatever, they want something that may not be bad, but it's the attachment to an idea, maybe that this is how you get it.

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Well, I think all of us, you know, and uh naturally want to be loved, right? It's how we get love that can be misconstrued, right? So the reason they want that Umez bag or that Lamborghini is ultimately because they think that people are gonna love them more, right? They're gonna get more love from that, they're gonna get more attention from that. But bottom line, love, right? We all want love and we all go about it in slightly different ways. It just seems like we live, as you know, as Madonna said a long time ago, in a material world, right? Um, where people think the material things, external things, are gonna give them happiness. But the truth is, of course, it won't. The happiness comes from within, right? I mean, you don't have to go anywhere to feel happy, right? You have the power to feel happy anytime you want. People are made to believe, and I say made to believe, we live in a world of make-believe. You know, the corporations, the media, all these social media, other people make us believe that these things will make us happy and be important and be loved more, right? When in reality, none of those things will make you happy, none of those things will fulfill you. And I can speak from experience. You know, I was living in a you know, a huge mansion. I had all the I had Rolls Royce, I had two Bentleys, I had a lot of stuff, but none of it made me happy. And neither did she, right? Neither did she. Having the supermodel didn't make me happy either, right? But I but so the reason I say that is not to impress, but to impress upon that those things don't make you happy. Because a lot of people who are broke will say that, and people go, well, you're broke, how do you know, right? Well, I've I've been very wealthy, and I can tell you it doesn't make you happy. So I can speak from experience rather than, well, I don't have any money, so I'm gonna say I don't want to have any money, which a lot of people do, right? They'll say, Well, I never wanted, I don't even care about money. Well, you do. You're a fucking liar. You do care about money. You've got to have money to live. You can't move without money. Now, and as soon as you say that you do care about money, you're probably not gonna have to worry about your bills as much as you do now because you'll have more of it, right? It's all psychological, right? If you say you don't want something, well, great. You're not gonna put any attention to it, you're not gonna get any. And if you get stuff and you don't put attention to it, take care of it, look after it, and appreciate it, it'll go. It'll just disappear, right? So, yeah, I, you know, I I and then with Tomaz, which is not a real name, obviously, but um I she was my heroine, man. I I just, you know, I I gave myself away, right? So we want to talk about um self-esteem, uh what you think and feel about yourself. Uh it's all mirrored, you know, and she mirrored it all back to me beautifully. Now, I'm not saying I got it all right away, but even when I knew in the in the in the in the beginning, and she told me her second favorite flower is the Venus flytrap. Well, like I said, I knew right away she was going to be dangerous. But you know, I'm thinking, well, I got you know 20 years of spiritual counseling or 20 years of you know personal development. I'll be good, right? But you lose yourself a little by slow, little pieces of giving yourself away of not doing the things you used to do before you met. Taking care of yourself, doing your meditation, working out, reading, juicing, all those little things that the other person, and this is not in every relationship, but in a lot of relationships, there's a very often there's a giver and a taker, right? And the taker wants to isolate you so they can devour you, so you're they are the center of your world and you've got nothing else around you. No support network, nothing, right? Um, and the giver wants to give as much as they can give, but they both end up in in uh the realization that it doesn't matter how much I give, it's never gonna be enough. And the taker realizes that once they've taken everything the other person has and there's nothing left for them to give them, they're gonna go to the next host, right? But you don't always see that coming, even though you might be you might understand that um psychologically or mentally. Um you don't even realize that you're getting deeper and deeper into the situation. The nectar gets stronger and stronger until you're making excuses, or you just don't even bring it up anymore. You just accept it as it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah, uh I see the there's multiple things here. I can see the why it's like left wide open. Let's go back into maybe the rose-colored glasses element of she was my drug. Because I think I think a lot of guys, especially my nice guy camp, falls into this one. We're like, yes, dear, whatever you need, dear, I'll do anything you want to, dear. I'll change whoever I am for you, dear. If as long as you're happy, then I'm gonna be happy, dear. Happy wife, happy life. And all of the nonsense of not only there's a giver and a taker, but you actually created a taker. Like you trained her to take from you. You weren't actually doing reciprocity, you're doing uh transactional exchange and calling it how I get love. So maybe a little more on like the bargaining element that you had for like she was my drug, she got me, man. I got addicted to this thing, doing it this way. Maybe break that down a little more for my nice guys out there that are like, I don't think he gets it. If she's just happy, I'll be happy.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yeah, I never said that.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

And she's saying that's what I see my guys do.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of guys do, yeah. Uh and she didn't train me. Uh, she was already doing it. I was not, I was not the first guy she'd done this to. She'd been doing it for 14 years, right? So she already had the skills of manipulation and all that before. She met me.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

You maybe didn't train her. No, no, no. She was conditioning you.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

She didn't condition me, man. I gave it away. So I'm not taking her, I'm not giving her any blame. I saw it coming and I understood what was happening, but I was prepared to do it because I was too afraid to lose her, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Explain it to me then. This is maybe maybe you're right. So maybe explain it to me then. I know this thing's killing me. I know it's a parasite. I'm well aware of what it is. I'm doing it on purpose, and I'm deliberately on purpose, letting a parasite bleed me dry. Well, maybe I missed it. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_02 22:19

That's not exactly what I said.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

I said I already knew it. I already knew what she was doing. She didn't train me, she didn't condition me.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

I already knew what she was doing. I said I already knew when I first met her that she was troubled, that she was dangerous, right? To what degree I didn't know, right? I didn't know that fully. Uh, and I didn't know that until really afterwards, fully. However, she wasn't trying to chain me, she was just being who she is. That's who she is, right? She was not intentionally saying I gotta groom him to this, it's just how she is, right? And I was prepared to give myself away, I guess, more than I'd ever done. Before. I've never done that in a relationship before, but I was prepared to give more of myself away because I was addicted to her. I was addicted, you know, we're we're living in a 7,500 square foot mansion with a sex room, and she's a sex addict, you know. So I'm addicted to her in that way, and I'm addicted to her beauty. Uh, I wasn't addicted to her necessarily as a person, right? So we go through all this, and eventually, I and I did let her go, and I did try and, you know, you said, well, why didn't you set boundaries? I did, but she just stepped over them, right? And broke them all. And then I would just justify it in my head by saying this, right? I could break up with her. And I even talked to the reader in the book and go, you probably think I should have broken up with her, right? But here's the deal. Number one, if I had broken up with her, you wouldn't be reading this amazing fucking story, would you? You know, you wouldn't be having such a good time reading it to the reader. And then I would say to myself, look, I got a choice here. I can break up with her, sure. And I could go back to what you might consider a mediocre life. Or I could put up with a little crazy and continue living with a freaking, you know, and you might not say you care about beautiful. I'm going to tell you, 99% of the men would care, right? So I'm living with this 5'11 soup former supermodel, living in a mansion with a uh a sex room, that's a lot for a guy to turn away, right? So a lot of people go, yeah, I would put up with it too for a while, right? I put up for it with it for a period of time until I wasn't prepared to put up with it anymore, and then I ended it. But doesn't make that doesn't matter. What matters is that I let myself, my identity slip away, and I allow these things to happen more and more and more. And so what I had to learn was to look at the mirror that she was providing for me so I could learn these things, where I was attached, where I would give myself away. There's nothing wrong with me being in a relationship with a former supermodel, having a mansion and having a sex room. Nothing wrong with any of that. The problem came because I was giving pieces of myself away. And eventually that could have destroyed me. It could have taken me back to the asylum. But I it didn't, and I came out of it. And then after I came out of it, I really spent a lot of time studying how it happened, why it happened, what the gifts were for me, so I could walk away with a lot of healing and growth.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

What are some of the things then you found then? You said now that I'm outside of this thing and the the addiction element of this thing, which was there, there's a consumption that like if I leave this, I lose this thing. And there's a reason I can control it, I can leave whenever I want. Like we've got our pieces in here for our justification. I'm successful. I can I'm actually the one calling the shots here when you now you step back, you're like, I was never calling the fucking shots. So, in which case, what did you say you found? Now that I can step out of this and I can look at this, these are the lessons my guys need to pay attention to. This is what I learned. What did you learn?

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah. Okay, how long you go, right? Because this is going to be a long conversation. All right. So, first of all, uh, I've just said a bunch of things, right? I said that, you know, material things won't make you happy, won't fulfill you, whether it's the woman, it's the house, the cars, whatever it is, right? So I had to learn and see, which I hadn't, my attachment, right? To let go of all that stuff. And I did, I let it all go. I let it all go away, right? Now, the other thing I had to learn was to stop hiding myself, start running away from myself, stop feeling shame about my past and be vulnerable. So I basically in the book, I shed it all. Everything from the electric convulsive therapy, you know, getting ridiculed as a kid in school for having a small dick, uh, everything all the way through to other things, many, many things, right? So it's all in the book there. So to be vulnerable, I'm not suggesting that everybody should write a book and put everything they're vulnerable for in their life in a book. I did it specifically to say to other people, particularly men, vulnerability is not a weakness, it's a strength, right? And you can gain freedom through vulnerability. Because once you, what do you call it, spill the tea, once you share that stuff, no one can ever, ever use that against you again because you've already put it out there. So it gives you incredible freedom. So vulnerability, authenticity. Because once you've now said all these things about you hiding, you know, and being on stage in front of thousands of people and then walking off there and feeling alone, because you people would say, Oh, you're amazing. And I go, No, I'm not. That's that's just an act, right? That's just a persona on there. That's not me as a person, right? It's not how I live, I like to, but it's not realistic. So then being able to say that and speak about yourself in a way that's authentic, be authentic. Um, that's huge. That's massive. So the lessons I I mean, I worked with Tony Robbins, I've worked with Robert Kiyosaki and tons of luminaries, and I learned a lot from them. However, none of them taught me as much as she did, the profound lessons I learned from her. So again, I'm eternally grateful for to her for that to come into my life as a uh master, master teacher. So um, okay. So that's a few things. Do you want to make any comments on about any of that?

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Well, I mean, there's there's four different areas or five different areas on this thing. So you have vulnerability, authenticity, um, then also the irony of like being made fun of when you were younger by having your small dick, and then now finding your identity linked to um with a sex addict who's hot as fuck. So let me show you who's got a small dick. It's ironic that like, no, I built an entire fuck you around that comment. So you want to bully me, I'll go ahead and show I'll show you with my success. Right. So I'll just I'll just outwin all of you guys. So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

It could have been on a subconscious level. But I'll tell you, you know, so I believe that nothing happens to you, everything happens for you, right? Even those traumas as a kid. So you go, wait a minute, how does having electric shock therapy, you know, end up being a good thing? Well, because the reason I had it is because I was so freaking high, right? But I wasn't high on drugs, I was high on mania, right? And I had incredible spiritual experiences because of that, which led me into the spiritual arena, right? So there's the gift. What about having being told you got a small dick? Well, then I had to overperform in the bedroom, right? So when I got a girlfriend and I thought, well, my dick's not going to do it, I got to figure out how to pleasure her. Uh and so pleasuring my partner became more important than pleasuring me. And that was how I got turned on. And that's why, like in the book, people really go, How the hell do you spend three days in a sex room? You can't go that long as a guy, right? But I had to have creative ways that I'd learned throughout my life of how to stimulate and give women a pleasure by tuning into them, feeling every movement they made, um, every look on every facial expression, all that. I learned that. I never read a book about it, I just learned it, right? And that every woman is different. You know, there's all there's people that generally say, well, if you do this to them, I do that too. It's bullshit. You've got to learn that woman individually to understand how to give her pleasure. So that was a gift to learn all that. I became a bit of a savant in the bedroom. But I wouldn't have had that happen if I hadn't had that trauma when I was a kid. And it was trauma, right? It was terrible trauma to go through that. Um, so somebody said, would you go through it again? Well, having gone through it, yeah, but I wouldn't want to go through it again. Any more than I want to go back to uh being with Tomaz again. I'm grateful, it was amazing, I'm blessed by the experience, but I definitely wouldn't want to go through that again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

And and so I've got the idea too, like there's an element too that your success became um it's it's pivotal. You probably would, if I'm guessing from hanging out with you, probably outwork people in a lot of areas to make sure that like the success element worked out pretty good. Like you that's why you burned out so many times. I'll just outwork everybody. I will figure out a way to do this.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Does that seem kind of like no, not at all? I wasn't really into it for the success. I was into it for the distraction, right? When I became very financially successful, I just I imploded it. It was like I never want because my dad was very successful, made a lot of money, but money was more important to him than his family. So I never wanted to be that guy. It kind of happened by accident, right? It was really teaching me a lesson. It was teaching me my judgment about money, right? So suddenly, you know, you you don't want to have that because you're judging it, and suddenly you're having to go, oh shit, now I've become that guy, right? That I never wanted to be, so I could let go of judgment, which I did in the end, but I just didn't want to be attached to it because here's the thing that happened. This is the understanding I came to because of her, right? So I've got all this stuff, but I'm working my ass off, right? To keep it all, right? To get it. And then you get this amazing fucking house and all this amazing stuff, but you're working your ass off to get it. So you don't really get the chance to enjoy it because you're working so hard. And then it's not just because you got it, now you got to get new stuff to replace that stuff. And now you've got to go out and work for all that, and it's a never-ending journey. It's never gonna be enough. So initially, I was kind of like people used to say to me, Well, you know, what do you what happens if you lose it all? What happened if you lost that? And I go, Yeah, it doesn't matter, it's just material things, that'd be the same. But what I realized and what she helped shine light on, that wasn't true. I was attached to it more than I realized, right? And so when I realized that, and that happens from a funny story in the book where she cuts up all my clothes, right? And I was I was a clothes whore, right? So all these clothes that I got in a in a in a um a closet, she cuts them all up. And of course, I'm not saying that, you know, by believing that everything happens, nothing happens to you, everything happens for you. You're not gonna get it right away. You're gonna be angry. You're a human being, right? And when we're angry, we're a victim at that, right? Because we think it happened to us. That's why it's important not to stay there, right? Because if you stay there, you become a victim long term. But if you can, you know, let your anger out, your disappointment, your rage, whatever it is, and then come to the point and say, usually with resistance, you know, okay, so this happened for me. How does this happen for me? What is the greatness in this, right? But by doing that, after you cut up all my clothes, I had to ask, okay, where's the silver lining? And, you know, initially you're not going to get the answer because you're still pissed, right? So initially I went, well, you know, it's only clothes. You can replace clothes. And then your brain goes, that's fucking bullshit. Those were nice clothes and they cost a lot of money, right? So then I go, okay, so I had to dig deeper. And that's when I got finally to attachment. I was attached to them. I started to think, I had started to think that those clothes were me, were a part of me, that were an important part of me. And without those clothes, I would be worth less. But when I got that light bulb moment, and I went, holy shit, I'm not my clothes. And I began to then, of course, that's not the only thing you're attached to, right? And then you start, what else am I attached to, right? And then little by slow, you start to let go of it. Not because there's anything wrong with it per se, but what's it taking from you to have it and keep it and renew it and get new? It's it's a it's exhausting and it's just not worth it, right? And so I began to see that and let go of the stuff, uh, including including her in the end, right? It was me. It was the in the end, it was my choice, my conscious decision not to be that. But I had to go through this, which is why I say to people sometimes, you know, well, people say, Well, you know, I'm trying to get them out of that relationship and the person's no good for them. I say, shut the fuck up. They're exactly what they need. They're going through something. If you pull them out of it, you haven't helped them. Because all they're gonna do is draw the same person in a different body back in again. You gotta wait until they are ready, until they've got what they need to get out of it, and then help them if they want that help. Help them to get where they want to go, but don't force them out of a relationship that actually maybe they may need that kick in the ass. And I needed that kick in the ass, right? Uh excuse me. So it was it was a good thing for me. Uh I didn't necessarily think he was that great going through it, but I had to come out of it when I was ready. And in the end, I was ready.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

Yeah, I think there's a there's a lot of pieces here that are coming together to go, okay. I'm seeing the lesson, I'm seeing how it got happened, what happened here, how did it get here to even have that be a thing. And also an element, there was something that happened between you two where she wanted to hurt you. And so she's like, How do I hurt you most? Which is probably also showing what you valued most of the time. Why would she destroy clothes if you didn't really care about them? And I think that's where like linking to like what was I going through without going like, so this is the way out, guys. But like going, guys, if you're stuck in it, this is what's happening because people will try and do as much harm as they can when you harm them, and they'll hurt you with what they believe will hurt you most based on what you've again used attached your identity to, which in this case was close. And so you're like, no, no, none of that matters. Like it really did at the time that she was trying to do as much damage as she could, and you showed her that was important to you. So she was trying to hurt you where she could. Maybe helping the guys in that area. Like, do you see how the attachment thing is linked to what I was in order for them to go, do you even see you're in the curse right now? Do you even see it? And I think that would be maybe more helpful for guys to understand more of the feeling of how does that thing, before I just go like, just you gotta get out of it, man. It just none of it matters.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

And that's here's the thing though, she didn't want to hurt me, right? Um, and that's important for a guy to understand because you don't take it personally. She did not want to hurt me. She wanted to hurt her father, right? Because when she was a child, her father put her in an asylum. And her father was very analytical, no emotion, never gave her the emotion she felt she needed, and then he put her in an asylum. He was a billionaire, so he cared more about his money than his children, right? And so when she did get out of the asylum, which is an amazing story, she hated, well, she thought she hated her father, right? And so all she wanted to do, well, first of all, she's and the other thing is she's incredibly beautiful. So men are around her like flies, and all she believed they could want her for because she was not uh um lovable because her father didn't love her in her mind. So if any if my father can't love me, then no man is gonna love me. And all they want is sex from me. I am going to show men. I hate men. I'm gonna take men for everything they have and destroy them. Been a flat trap, right? So she didn't want to hurt me because she didn't know me. She was doing those things to me because I was a man, right? And I think, and I'm not saying this is always the case sometimes, people do want to hurt you specifically. I get it, right? Um, but that was her MO, and that's why her father was trying to get her put in jail. Because she'd been doing it for 14 years. Now, I didn't know that to begin with, right? Um, and her me and her father became good friends. So he wanted to stop her, but she was pretty strong. And anyway, that's that's the other story. So the bottom line is though, you're right, it did show me that I was attached to those clothes, right? So the bottom line, that's what's really important for me, not why and how and what she really wanted to do. What was important for me to get out of it was my attachment to clothes. And um, some of the things she did also indicated my attachment to clothes, but she just did it because she was used to doing whatever the hell she wanted, right? She just had that, uh, you know, being born into such wealth. She did do whatever she wanted. And her father never put any restrictions on that. And so she just grew up with the belief that I get whatever I want, do what I want, when I want, and she did. I tried to put boundaries around her because that wasn't my upbringing. I had to work hard for everything I had, right? Uh, and had to go out and work from being very young, which I'm not, I'm not complaining about it. It was a different, just a different way of being in the world, right? Uh, and so we would clash there because she would just want me to spend money on her and take care of her, and I wouldn't do it. I said, You got to get a job. I'm not buying you everything, no way, right? So there were parts of me that were putting boundaries down, but she was clever and she was a manipulator, right? So she would, I would say, let's go do this, and she would say, Okay, yeah, I'll go do that. But she would find a way for it to be a disaster until eventually go, I'm not even doing this anymore. It's too exact exhausting. She's just gonna find a way not to do it anyway, right? So, but I never I I didn't really, I mean, she took money from me occasionally, but I never really gave her much money. Um, and she never took anything from me. Um in the end, the irony is uh that she wanted to marry me, but I knew I couldn't marry her because that would be the end of the relationship, because the dynamic that the tension would go, and probably once she had me, she would devour me, divorce me, take me the take the money and go anyway. So that was never gonna happen. So there was this game. It was a game, a cat and mouse or Venus flytrap on a fly. Uh and it was exciting, it was adventurous. Sometimes I'd win, sometimes she'd win. But in the end it was exhausting, and I just, you know, had to had to call it had to call an end to it.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah, so that's that's the part where I'm like, let's let's show the guys what it is then. Okay, if they're in a Venus flytrap situation, yeah, like how do we get to identify that's what it is? Because the answers and the solutions are two very different things. Saying this is the this is the answer doesn't mean they know how to solve it. And so this is where I'm kind of more in like, so how do we get them to see the lesson inside the lesson so they go, Oh, I'm with one of these takers. I'm with somebody who's doing that. So that way we can get them to at least have the awareness to go, oh, so I can see the lesson that uh Steven's talking about makes a little more sense for me.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I really counsel people on now. First of all, you've got to recognize when you're starting to give yourself away. When you're starting to stop doing the things that made you who you are, right? You don't go to the gym anymore. Why don't you go to the gym anymore? Did you just wake up and say, I'm not gonna go to the gym anymore? Well, not usually. What's usually what's gonna happen is they're gonna say to you, Oh, don't go to the gym right now. I really need you here with me. Stay with me. And that's alluring, right? Or uh, you know, you uh are gonna go see your friends. Oh, don't go see your friends. You know, you I I really want you and here's the thing. Well, why don't you come with me? I I don't want to come because I don't think they like me. Do you know what I mean? There's always gonna be a reason that is gonna play on the strings of your heart, and it's little by slow. These things happen, right? And then it's gonna be with your family, or it's gonna be with, you know, the sport you play, hanging out with your guy friends or girlfriends. All these things, little by slow, start to get smaller and smaller until you haven't seen them in a while. And then you go, what's the point? Right? And then you now you're really fucked, right? Now they've really isolated you and you got nowhere to go, and you don't even know who you are, right? Your identity is now reliant on them, right? And that's what they want. Or they think they want, right? Because now they have all the power, because in their mind, really they're powerless, right? And you've made yourself powerless, right? So that's why it's a great mirror, isn't it, right? Um, until you say, okay, uh, I gotta get myself back. But the best way is not give yourself away in the first place. And if they tell you their second favorite flower is the Venus plytrap, maybe consider not going down that road.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Well, I think it that's the tricky part to it. And and like just you know, maybe I'm reading between the lines, but the pattern here looks like. You're talking about how to avoid a narcissistic dynamic. Yeah, right? That's what the whole book is. This is this is like this is a narcissist. So you can see what it looks like. They will love bomb you, they will trap you, they will isolate you, and then they will bleed you. And it's not even a financial thing, it's like I will suck your soul out of your body. And I will convince you that it's the best idea for you to do it, too. And you actually be happy to destroy yourself until there's nothing left. So this is like a this was a narcissistic dynamic, and based on her father issue, her vengeance, her spirit of vengeance, her detachment, which her heart was probably never even open to begin with. Right. Like it'll be a sales pitch with love bombing, which in this case she knew her value came from physicality. And so in which case I can get you in here, and I will wrap you around my finger and then take you from everything you've got. This wasn't for finances, but this is for sucking the essence out of your existence.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

That's correct.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

So that's so that's what I was saying. Like, but finding like, okay, so this book is like how to catch like you may be in a narcissistic dynamic here. This is a tricky, tricky thing because uh the idea, and this is where I wish I could say like the answer of like no, no, don't get in one of these. I wish it was that simple. These things are masters. But another thing too. Let me um let me ask a question for you. Like, before you met this girl, were you in like a bounce back dynamic? You were like, I just got out of something really tough. There was a big change in my life. I was going through hard times, and I'm starting to come back up. I'm on the mend now for my maybe my fourth divorce or whatever it is. Like, were you on like a mend? Like you were like, I'm trying to trying to heal up right now, and then found this one.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

I was just coming out of my fourth divorce, and uh, everything around me had just imploded. And so I was just right. The universe abores a void, right? And so in she comes, and I'm thinking, Oh, I can put all my attention. In that, right? And I cannot worry about all the other stuff that's going in my life that's so chaotic, and I don't want to think about it, so I can think about her 100%.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Yes. Well, they these ones are bottom feeders, and so they're attractive, but they're like those don't the fish with the glow worm in the front of them or whatever. They can only work in the dark. And so, like, that means like I knew you were going through something really hard for you to even be at the bottom there for her to go, I want one of these glow worms.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

You're coming, they see you coming. You're opening yourself up to it, and you don't even know, which is another thing, you know, how you gotta build your esteem. So that you don't throw yourself into something and lose yourself in something here, screw up all your relationships, including four marriages. That's just the marriages. That's not even all the relationships, right? And so, yeah, I was right for that. And like I said, the universe says, Okay, I'm gonna sit here on your ass now, and you're really gonna get it, right? Yeah, it's not to hurt you, not to punish you, but to get you to see yourself.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Well, the the scavengers will will take you lower than you thought you could go. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 45:56

And and that's what that's the idea is you thought that was rock bottom. Oh, let's go ahead and humble you. He's not getting a little bit more. Yeah, exactly. Good. And so like I I see the pattern of how this happened. Um, let's go back to the healing part to it. Now, like you you've been imploding relationships already to even have this one go, let me get you with some shit here. You've been you've been fucking up these dynamics. Let me get you fucked up. So you gotta you got a pretty heavy dose of some medicine here. Um what are some of the things that you figured out through just the grieving? So now I get what she is. I know what she is, I understand her thing. Now let's go to the healing part. Now I figured out things. Let's get let's I'm I'm done with her. Let's hear about you. Here's how you heal, guys. When you're in this, these are the life lessons or the things that like this this teaches you. And I'd like to hear some of your like, these are the wisdom nuggets that everybody needs to know.

SPEAKER_02 46:51

Sure. Okay. Well, there are things you can do to not get into one, but you know, sometimes you just have to have it, man. You think it's gonna go through. So healing, it's a process. You're not gonna heal overnight any more than you got into it overnight. You know, I didn't get into that relationship the moment I was texting her or texting her what her favorite flower was. It happened a long time before that, right? I was ripe for it. So I always tell people listen, a pound of prevention is worth a thousand pounds of cure, right? We've all got these uh flaws, these patterns that were created when we're children. And the sooner you figure out what they were and heal them, the sooner you're gonna have a healthy relationship. And if you don't, you're only gonna take those issues into the relationship and you're gonna fuck it up, right? So which way do you want to learn? The slow way or the easy, you know, the slow, hard way or the uh easy way, which is a lot easier and a lot less expensive, and you're probably not gonna have to go through four divorces, right? So that's first. Then if you come when you're coming out of it, when you finally decide to come out of it, and you will, uh hopefully in one piece, um, the first thing is the first part of the healing is getting back to yourself, getting back to your identity, being who you are again. Because if you try and heal when you're in that state of feeling of being broken, you've got no esteem, those things, it's gonna be really hard to heal in that place, right? And not um regress, right? So, and that's what a lot of people do, isn't it? They get away from the person and then they just feel like I gotta go back because the it the connection is still there and the pull is so strong. So you gotta make sure that pull isn't any there anymore, and that's getting back to being who you are. So when I would break up, when I broke up with her, you know, I had to go back to doing my meditation, doing my workouts every day, doing my juicing, all the foundational things, right? And as you do that, little by slow, you get stronger and stronger and stronger again. And then you're in a position where you can really start to look at it from a different perspective. Now, most people don't do that, right? They just say, I'm just not gonna date for six months, or I'm not gonna date for a year, but they don't do any work on themselves, right? And so they go back out there, and of course, they end up dating the same person in a different body. So once you've got yourself back on track, you're feeling better, you're feeling stronger, then you're gonna say, okay, it didn't happen to me, it happened for me. And that belief doesn't mean they didn't do what they did. Of course they did, right? But can you accept in some way that they did it for you? And if you can't, you're gonna get a book. It's called The Little Soul in the Sun, which explains it to you, right? I don't know if you ever read it. It's a freaking amazing book. It's about 20 pages and it'll blow your mind, right? I'm gonna tell it real quick just so that you because I think people get a lot out of it, right? So there's this little soul in heaven, right? And he goes up to God and he says, God, I think I know who I am. And God says, You do? Okay, well, who do you think you are? And he said, I am the light. And God says, That's right. That's who you are. You are the light. And the little soul says, Hmm, well, I I'd like to experience myself being the light. Would that be good? And God says, Yeah, that would be good. There's just one problem, though. The little soul says, Well, what's that? And God says, Well, there is nothing but the light. The little soul says, Well, you're God, you think of something. So God says, I already had. But for you to experience yourself, you first have to experience what you are not. And the little soul, the little soul says, What I'm not? What what is it that I'm not? And God says, Darkness. And for you to experience yourself, I would have to surround yourself, surround you with darkness. And the little soul says, Hmm, well, will I be afraid? And God says, Only if you choose to be. But God says, Look, there's many, many ways you can experience yourself. You could experience yourself being happy, you could experience yourself being sad, you could experience yourself being forgiving. And the little soul points this out of and goes, I'd like to experience myself as being forgiving. Would that be good? And God said, Oh yes, that would be good. And then God says, But there's only one problem. And the little soul says, There are a lot of problems around here. What think of something? And God says, Well, in order you for to give someone, there has to be someone for you to forgive, and there's nothing to forgive. And then all of a sudden, this little soul, other little soul that's watching this little soul having his conversation with God says, I will do something for you to forgive me for. And the little soul is shocked. And he looks at the other little soul and says, You would? But why would you do that for me? Why would you slow your vibration down to such a low level that you would do something to hurt me or smite me? And the other little soul says, Because I love you. And don't you remember, you and I? We've done this many, many times before. We've been the up and the down of it, the left and the right of it, the victim and the villain of it. Oh yeah, we've done it many times. But all I ask is that when I come back into when I come into your next life and I do something to hurt you and smite you, all I ask is that you remember who I really am. And the little soul says, I will, and they go running down to earth to go and have that little game, right? And then as they're running down, God calls after them and said, Always remember, I have sent you nothing but angels. And so I think of that story, and I think of Tomas and other people that I thought in my life had done things to me, and I see them as a soul or a spirit. And so that is what I would recommend you guys do is see that person not as your enemy, but in the basic form of what we are. We're all spirits having a human experience, right? They did it for you. They came into your life to show you something about yourself, and they made a big sacrifice. So thank them for that. Be grateful for that, and do the freaking work, right? Look in the mirrors. And then people will say to me, Well, Stephen, listen, man, this guy beat the shit out of me, right? I would never physically hurt someone, I would never mentally abuse someone. And I say, that's not the point. You might not do that, but you let him do it to you. So what does that say about you? What does that say about how you feel and think about yourself, right? That's the mirror. And that was the mirror for me, right? That was the mirror for me. Yeah, I wouldn't do that to anybody else, but I let someone do it to me. And that's about self-worth, you know? That's about the fear of not being lovable, right? So we were perfect mirrors of each other. But I had to look at it as a mirror rather than saying she did it to me, which is just too easy, right? The challenge with, you know, accepting that it happened for you, I'm not saying it's gonna be easy, right? Because people come up with all kinds of things uh that have happened in their lives that they feel someone did to them. But here's the issue, and I bring it down to this. Look, you got a choice. I can't make you believe it happened for you. But let me let me put it to you this way: if you believe it happened to you, now you got a wound. Now you got a wound. You probably already got a bunch, right? So now you got another wound, right? However, if you will commit to the belief that it happened for you, you might not find it right away. It might take you a long time. But here's the thing: you will find it. And when you find it, now you're wiser. So you do want to have another wound or you do want to be wiser? Because there's your choice, right? Nothing wrong with either one. If you still want to be a victim, then go ahead. But where's that gonna get you? Where's that gonna lead, right? That's a never-ending circle or a never-ending cycle, right? So there's always a silver line. And I, you know, I've got hundreds of examples, as you as do you, right? When people finally get it, right? Um, and they will too, eventually.

unknown 55:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

So that's a big part of the healing process. That belief has really saved my life, man. It's saved my ass, right? Uh, because I don't like it sometimes, you know, when things happen. I want to believe. No, no, this one, this one happened to me, right? But being committed by being committed to the belief, I go, okay. Man, this is not going to be easy, right? But I'm committed to it. So I find it. You know, uh, I always find it. And I've worked with many people who have had terrible tragedies happen in their life and terrible things done for them, but but it feels like it's done to them and worked through it. So I mean, at some point someone might come up with something that I can't figure out, but it hasn't happened yet.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

That's good. The story to uh the little soul, it's uh it's it's a little deeper than I think people would understand. Like people who don't understand like those metaphors or those are universal laws that are being set inside of like what seems like a kid's story. And it's it's a purpose of existence element of it. And I'm with you for finding the acceptance and the accountability part of it, where how do I do grace and forgiveness? It's like, well, you're supposed to learn a lesson here and you said you wanted to take the class, and then you think that you're being abused when the class was how to manage getting through abuse. Like you you at you signed up for the class to experience what's it like to not have that? I was like, well, this is what it feels like.

unknown 56:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:46

Did you learn? Yeah. People create an identity around like the the lesson itself, then it really st it really st gets you stuck. It really gets you stuck. And this is where like our mastery would have to go into here's how I get you unstuck. So if people are creating their identity, or they're trying to do these like you know, false strategies to try to get you know achievement or success or love or validation or whatever they're trying to get, the attachments that they have.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

Like what strategies have you found have been like the most effective aside from life happening to you to for you? Because you already know it goes further than that. Yeah. You know, it goes into transcendence into life as happening, and then it goes through life happening through you and goes into true acceptance.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Um but well, one of the one of the things that's held me. This may not help everybody out there, but one of the things she taught me is, you know, up until I was with her, you could have said, Well, can everybody be healed? And I would say yes. And now I would say no. They can't. Some people are just not meant to be healed. And your idea that you can heal everybody is going to be your downfall because there's going to become a person, there's going to come a person in your life that was sent down here to show you that's not true of everybody. And she was that person. I know now that she will never be healed and was never meant to be healed, and that's one of the lessons that she brings to people. However, it doesn't mean you go it doesn't mean you go into a session and go, this fuck is never going to change. I mean, we do whatever we can, right? But there comes a point where the other person has to be willing and open to doing doing the work, right? I mean, that's just the bottom line. I can't, I can't heal anybody, I can't cure anybody, I can't make anybody do anything. There has to be a willingness. Now, you know, I do go to quite uh extreme length to begin with to see the commitment in them. You know, I said, I need to know you're committed. Then people go, What do you mean I'm paying you a lot of fucking money? And I go, listen, you can go to the gym in January and sign up for a freaking membership, but you don't ever, you know, people don't show up, right? That doesn't mean anything, right? So anyway, but you're still going to get people who are not willing to do it. So when people say to me, What do you do in this situation? I say, I have no idea because I don't know the person yet. And there's no one thing that works for everybody. Every person is unique, right? And so I do a lot of, I spend a lot of time with people really getting to understand them, as you do, right? Um, to make sure that whatever advice I give them fits with their particular circumstance. So, for example, uh, if someone is extremely religious, I'm going to talk to them in a different way than if I speak to someone that's very spiritual, because the language is completely different, and the way they relate is going to be completely different. If someone is a uh, you know, very uh, you know, to any extreme, could be very misogynistic, could be very feminine. Uh woman can be very masculine or very feminine. So you've got to relate to them on the level that they're at. You know, one of the things I learned from Tony early on is you've got to meet people where they are in order to take them to somewhere else. Got to meet them where they already are. So that's uh that's a big part of the magic, you know. Uh and so uh I mean, is the structure to what I do? Of course there's structure to do what I to do what I do. That's the first thing we've got to bring them to the awareness, right? You know, because you can't uh have a transformation until someone is aware they've got a freaking issue, right? And that's not always easy because we live in a world where people's uh self-esteem is very low to a large extent, right? People are not used to being criticized. If they get the criticized, they can just walk away. You know, I'm not your friend anymore. I'm gonna leave you, I'm gonna get out of this relationship because people can do whatever they want to do, right? And sometimes people don't like to face themselves or the past, me included, right? I'm a perfect example of it, right? So I know that feeling. Um and again, if you're in a uh victim mentality, which is very prevalent too, because society makes it easy. Society wants us to be a victim, society wants us to feel hopeless or incapable. So we stay in control of the people who really control our reality, which is a different story. But that's easy to be a victim. It's the easiest thing in the world to be a victim. It's the easiest thing in the world not to become aware or self-aware. It's always somebody else's fault. And we're kind of taught that. So to suddenly say, whoa, what are you saying? It's all my fault. You've got to say, well, it's not a fault, right? You don't have a relationship problem, you just have a pattern problem, right? And you were given those patterns usually, not always, but usually, when you were very young, when you weren't even aware it was happening, and you've probably carried it throughout your life. It doesn't mean you're a bad person or you did something wrong. It just means that that pattern is not working for you in relationship to what you're telling me you want. That pattern is going to make it very difficult for you to have it. So that's the that's the the beginning, isn't it, right? And then you you get into the nitty-gritty of what they then think is the problem, the pattern, and then what the pattern really means is not initially what we think it means, right? There's going to be so much more deeper to go, but at least we can identify where the trauma was experienced, where the pain was experienced, and then we can identify the emotion and the belief behind it, right? And then we can change those. And that's the easy part.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:26

So you said once we can identify the pattern, and then once we figure out what is the definition of what they believe the pattern means. This is the meaning behind what I believe the pattern is. Maybe even the strategy itself has meaning, and that's what you're what I believe. Then you go to the emotions and the beliefs, and you can now rewire and work in there and just go like, oh, well, let's rewire the concept of your identity in a different way.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:48

And that's where you're Yeah, I mean that's a that's a I mean there's there's not just beliefs, there's rules, there's values, there's all those things that all sort of.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:54

So I think those all fall under beliefs anyways.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

Um and I was gonna say something else as well. This is the problem with not writing that down, wasn't it? So um yeah. Um Yeah, so it's a journey, man. You know, bottom line is it really comes down to low vibrational energy, which comes down to fear, right? And people don't even know there's only really three fears anyway. Everything comes back to the what I call the three universal fears, which is self-worth, trust, and abandonment.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

So self-worth, trust, abandonment. All right, why are those your f your three? I think I have a different idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

You know that have you heard of the Nagamadi Library and the Yassenes and the Hermetic? Sure, but I want to hear your your Yeah, and I'm just saying I'm not claiming I'm not claiming those to be mine. I'm aware of them, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're all apparently those are built into the consciousness of humanity, and we're all experiencing them in one way, shape, or form or another. As everybody has some kind of fear of being abandoned and left. Uh everybody has some self-worth. I mean, to greater or lesser degrees. Everybody's not experiencing it to the same degree. Uh, and then trust, um, you know, people think, but you mean trust in other people. We've got to learn how to trust in ourselves, you know, and our connection with our creator. We don't need intermediaries, right? You don't need someone standing in a in a church on a pulpit telling you what the Bible means because it's irrelevant, right? Your life is your unique experience, and the only person who's been with you, or you want to call it a person or energy that's been with you, is your creator. And so why would your creator allow man to come onto earth and create machines and technology that means you can speak to anybody anywhere in the world without having that technology for you to communicate with them? It doesn't make any sense. It's nonsense, right? So you can communicate with your creator directly, and so I believe that the external world is pushing us inward. Because where do you find the truth in the external world anymore? You can't get it on the news, right? You can't get it on, you're not gonna get it on Facebook, right? You're not gonna get it uh on a particular program or from everybody around you because we're the truth is so subverted, the only place left for us to get it is within ourselves. And I believe that is the next level of human consciousness is going back within to where? To our heart, right? And communicating. But the ancients said it, man, you know, live from the heart, speak from the heart. If something is true, it will be heartfelt. And so we're uh we're coming to the point in our conscious evolution where we ain't gonna get that truth in the external world. We've got to go inside to get it. And so we're gonna be learning, you know, like I talked about by intuition, right? And everybody said, you know, you say to people, well, you know, what is your intuition telling? You go, I don't have any fucking intuition, man. What the hell's that, right? And you go, yes, you do. You're just not aware of it. And you're just not used to using it. Now, if I was to give you a violin, I give you a Stradivarius violin, which is plays beautiful music, you're not gonna get beautiful music out of it unless you if you haven't played one before, right? It doesn't matter how amazing the violin is. However, if you practice and you become a good student, you learn how to strum those strings and create beautiful music. And your intuition is the same. It's like a very fine instrument that you've got to learn how to play. Uh and it's not easy, you know. Like playing the violin ain't easy, right? So, and then people say, Well, how do you know if it's telling you the truth? Because, you know, what you're really saying is get in touch with my feelings. And people go, I'm not feelings, they're bad, right? You don't want to ever trust your feelings because you You know, your feelings will take you in the wrong direction. Well, they will if you don't know how to validate them, right? So a simple way is to say, you know, if your intuition is telling you to go and take a shotgun to the local school and blow a bunch of kids away, that's not your intuition, right? That's not your intuition. That's your ego telling you that, right? If your intuition is telling you that, you know, maybe, you know, you should forgive your mom, right, for what happened when you were a kid, that's probably your intuition, right? Because it's taking you in the direction of love and your the betterment of yourself. So that's just a couple of examples. But it's a process, man. And just like, you know, becoming human was a process, you know, becoming an adult was a process. You know, so we're at the point where, as Conte would say, it's time to break free of our immaturity and grow up.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

Okay, good. So I got you for the abandonment and trust. Well, how does the fear of worth, how does that one come in as for fear of worth, or did you mix worth with trust?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

No, three things. Three fears, self-worth. And abandonment. Those are the three.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:59

Yeah. What's the worth one? So you like so I you gave a good example for how to learn to find trust yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:05

Well, you want an example of whipped. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

For the worth one, yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:07

Okay, well, we're told again, I I hate to generalize, which is always a good thing to say before you generalize, right? But usually as as children, often as children, right, we're told that we're not enough. You know, what is wrong with you? Everything you do is wrong. Why does it why do you always mess things up, right? Things like that. And then as you know, when we're told things for long enough, we just accept them to be true, right? And then we don't even need anybody to tell us anymore. We've got our Nyrata that's going on around now. Yeah, well, things, you know, why you why do you wonder it never worked out? Things never work out for me. You know, I'm just not good enough, right? And then, of course, as we go out into the world, that can also be reinforced, right? Because we live in a competitive world and there's nothing more, nobody more competitive than kids, right? And so they want to put you down to put well, they think it puts themselves back up, but it really doesn't. But they think they feel like that's what's happening. And so we get it, we get bombarded with all these ideas that we're not good enough, right? And then they become programmed into our minds, and then it's up to us to reprogram that. But these are what I call transparent beliefs. What do I mean? You can't see them, they're not right in front of your eyes, but you're perceiving the world through those transparent beliefs. And I'll give you a really good analogy. When an elephant is born in Africa, or in any country for that matter, right? It's a baby elephant, and the mom's taking the elephant and she needs to go inside and see her friend to have some tea.

unknown 1:09:35

You know, making a story, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:37

So they park the elephant outside the house and they get a rope and they tie the rope around the elephant and tie the elephant to the tree. Now the elephant grows up into this big, massive elephant, right? But they use the same rope they did when he was a little baby. But the elephant has learned that it can't get itself away from the tree, even though it could easily do it, right? Because it's been conditioned to believe that since he was a baby elephant. So, although that belief that we have about ourselves not being good enough is ridiculous, it doesn't matter. So, I'll give you an example in life, uh, when you know Tomaz showed me this about herself. She's stunning, right? So I go in the bathroom, we're talking, and she said, you know, I just don't feel beautiful enough. And I almost fell over, right? And I'm like, first of all, I said to her, Listen, do me a favor, don't ever say that in front of another woman because they will kill you. Because they would do anything to look like you do. But you see, she was told when she was a child that she wasn't pretty. She was told that she wasn't beautiful, and that belief is still there to this day. She was told that she'd never be good enough. She was thrown in an asylum, she didn't feel like her father loved her. How could she possibly, as a young woman, feel that she was beautiful enough? And as you know, she then entered a business modeling, which is extremely competitive, right? You not you need that validation constantly. And if you don't get it, you start to feel, oh, I've lost it. I don't have it anymore. You know what I mean? Like athletes can get that way, right? They go out and play a great game, but they're very often afraid that the next time they play, they're not going to be able to do it anymore, right? And so she carried that with her. So there's an example. You know, I gave you the animal example, but we do it as human beings. I know I did, right? Uh, you know, I never I always thought I was overweight. I always thought that I wasn't good looking, I always thought I didn't have a big enough dick. I mean, I had a lot going on there that I had to deal with, right? So uh, and it and it stays with you, even though it's ridiculous. So, what do we do in that situation? Well, I've learned skills for doing that, right? So we have to recondition our mind, we have to rebuild our identity, and there are tools that you I mean, how did you learn that you were not good looking? How did you learn you were fat? How did you someone kept telling you, well, what if we decide to start telling ourselves something different? What if we decide to start telling ourselves what we really want to be, how we want to show up in the world, how and why an identity is so important, right? Because everything is built on that, how we can change our identity. Um, and using tools, you know. Now, a lot of people say, well, you know, I used to use affirmations and I said these things a million times. Yeah, but you didn't do it right. You've got to know the ingredients of how to do it properly, right? And you've got to also know, you know, affirmations will work on your psychology if you do them right. Um, but there's also incantations, which if you do that with ritual, you can then affect your external. There's all kinds of things you can do. I'm I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but there are ways that we can rebuild, right? And that's what you and I help people do, right? Is to rebuild those things. And so those old ideas, those old transparent beliefs, you can disintegrate them and they're no longer there. And you then you live the new beliefs. And that carries with you the way you walk, your posture, everything changes. Um it's quite it's quite extraordinary. It's quite miraculous, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

Okay. So like I see the the elements of how you can't believe. These are my three for fear. And it's fair enough, as far as like you can see like I got a story that matches for the element of uh why I say worth, trust, and abandonment. And even the idea of doubt having the filters in which we see the world. If I believe I'm not good enough, I'll make sure I'm not good enough, that whole concept. And then for the trust, the trust self is what you said, which gets into like um maybe where the semantics is kind of fun. We get into like uh I think I have a different semantic on this one. Is trusting self the same as having truth in authenticity?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:06

No. So what I say, yeah, right. So truth, sorry, trust, really, you know, bottom line, is you know, trusting in yourself is part of the journey. But what do we really need to trust in in the end? And that is the creative force that flows through everything. You might call that God, you might call it Buddha, you might call it Allah, whatever you want, right? But it's trusting in a higher power and knowing that that higher power would never abandon you, that you can trust that higher power, and that if you're part of, not apart from that higher power, then that higher power doesn't create crap, right? You are you are worthy of love and everything you desire, right? So um that's ultimately the trust, isn't it? Trust in that. And people don't, because they say, well, I pray for things, it doesn't work. Or, you know, things have happened in my life that I can't believe God would have let them happen to me, or God lets things happen in this world. How can God be a loving God? All these things, all these questions that people ask that create doubt, right? And so we have to move beyond doubt into faith, you know, and that is that whatever happens happens for the betterment, right? You know, I'm not gonna say nothing happens to you, everything happens before you, because I've said it a million times, but it does happen for the betterment of everything, even though it may not seem to in the moment, or when you know, you look around and you see what's going on, and we're getting deep into the weeds here, but you know, what's going on in Palestine, what is going on in Ukraine. And those are just a couple of examples, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Well, those are again external, but still like the idea if you're saying like truth and uh authenticity wouldn't have anything to do with Palestine. It would still be internal, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:53

Yes, correct.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:53

Yeah, in which case I'm still like, okay, so trust self is something people are afraid to do, which would be really just knowing the exposure of the truth of your authenticity. Like who really are you? People will avoid that, like the plague. How about I tell you the truth about what I see you're doing right there? Or like your mask is slipping. I can wearing a mask there, bud. Like you can see. Like you gotta try and manage that. Because if you get too close, you'll see it's a mask. But I want you close enough to be able to give me the attention that I want, but I don't want you so close that you can say this is not really me. Yeah. And this that's where fear would come in. This is where I can see fear of the true authenticity of oneself. I'm not necessarily just afraid to trust myself, but afraid to actually be who you are, is probably where I put the fear is more in the avoidance uh necessarily for fear. And then you have the worthiness, which is uh linked to doubt. And so your doubt element, which is tricky because fear is generally future. I'm afraid of what would happen if I was exposed, or if I lost everything, or if this went wrong, or if she hates me, or if I never see them again, or if I lose all my money. Fear is all possible futures. But doubt is present, doubt is now, which makes it tricky for the rules. I'm like, does it work for fear or is it separate from fear?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:12

It works for fear. It's doubt is just a is uh just an extrapolation of fear, right? Uh because if you absolutely knew there was nothing, no harm could ever come to you, you wouldn't even have that doubt, right? You wouldn't have the doubt. So it's a part of fear. Everything comes down to those three things. I've done events where we've had hundreds of people, and I say, right, I want you to write every fear down you can think of. Every fear you can ever think of. And people come up with pages, right? And I bring them all down to those three things. That's it. That it all comes down to one of those three things. When you talk about authenticity and you talk about, you know, what's going on. I don't know why I brought it up, but I did. Palestine, right? So it does come down to those things, right? And authenticity is a really important thing. People get attached to identities, right? That identity is not who they are. That's not their authenticity. People become attached to being a Democrat. I am a Democrat. No, you are not. A Democrat is not who you are, it's a political party. I am a Republican. No, you are not. You are not a Republican. You're a human being, right? You are attached or affiliated with the Republican Party, but everything you say after I am becomes your identity. And that's a big difference, right? So when people say I am a Muslim, no, you're not. You might believe in the Muslim faith, but you are not a Muslim. And I am a Christian, no, you're not, right? You believe in some of those things within them. So the first thing is to separate their religion, their political persuasion from who they think they are, right? The next thing you have to realize is that who are you really? Who are you? What would you do, right, in a situation where you had people that were following you? Would you believe, would you want them to kill other people that are following you? Would you want them to, you know, so you start to question the foundation of what they think they believe it, because they don't, right? Would you want to be kind to everybody? Sure. Why would you want to be anything else than that, right? And so you start to see there are holes in the things that they believe. You know, I mean, I don't know if you've done this. I don't know if you're ever a member of the CIA, but this isn't how the CIA get people to flip on their countries, right? You know, and they used to say to the American soldiers when they were captured, you know, the communists capture them and go, you know, and they give them a packet, you know, a cigarette. Have a cigarette. See? Well, communists are not bad, right? We just want to, you know, we want to, we're not we're kind, right? And I mean, let's face it, you can't say that in America there are no homeless people, right? There are homeless people in America, right? Well, sure. That's it. That's all they need to say. It's done, right? Because they're going to get them to see all the holes and convert them, right? Now, we can do that to turn them into a communist. We can also do that to turn them into a human being, right? Into being who they really are. And, you know, I there's millions of reasons you can say we're alive, right? And there's millions of meanings that you can give things. But the meaning you give things will change your life, right? You know, I've got an example I used when there's two young kids at home with their father watching a movie, and they're all sitting on the floor, and their father's a drug addict, right? And under the cushion of the sofa is his stash and his gun. So while they're sitting there in the middle of the movie, the door comes crashing in, and the police come in with the guns drawn, and for whatever reason, the father decides to go for his gun. And of course, they shoot him, right? They shoot him to death, right? In front of the two kids. And so the question is, what does that mean? It doesn't mean anything until you give it meaning, right? And one of the kids decided that what that meant was he was going to be a better drug dealer and he wasn't going to get caught. And that he hated police because they killed his father. And the other one decided what it meant was, I'm never having anything to do with drugs, right? And I'm going to lead a better life. And so they both did. The first kid was in and out of jail his whole life. And the other kid never had anything to do with drugs. He went to college and he got a good job. So all happened in a nanosecond of the meaning they gave that, right? And so meaning is incredibly powerful, and nothing actually has any meaning until you give it one. So giving things meaning in your life is very important. It's going to add to your identity. And then detaching yourself from things that are harming you. The challenge for in many cases is getting people to identify what they believe is harming them, right? Or what they're doing is harming them. Because the belief is that it isn't. The belief is that it's doing for them what they want it to do. And beliefs are extremely powerful. Even though no belief is true, it should be just make them all up, right? But once you've made it up and it becomes true for you, and it's reinforced then, because like you say, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? And you get reinforcements to reinforce that belief is true, it's a challenge to get people to change him because it's the foundation of the life, and that is shaky, right? If their belief is they get love from being a victim, they're probably not going to give that victimess up very easily. And so that goes back to what you said earlier is you know, how do you you can how do you uh how do you heal someone uh you know that's in that situation? I see sometimes you've got to accept you can't, you know, sometimes you won't be able to, and that's okay too, right? And you go, well, why is it okay? Well, imagine if you went back 300 years in time and you started telling people about the way we live today, they would kill you. I mean, literally, they would kill you, and so they should. Why? Because you are taking away from them 300 years of growth of experiences it's not for you to do, right? Sometimes people just gotta go through their process and you gotta be uh you know, you gotta be prepared to let them do it, right? And and be okay with that and not feel responsible because they weren't ready. That's not uh uh not a weight we need to take on our shoulders. But all right, I said a lot. I know you're like, geez, this guy ever shut up. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:47

No, we're just listening to you, just seeing your your perspectives, that's all. So okay, so I have these elements here. We went into beliefs, identities, the IMs. I have a lot of pieces here where like there's a lot of answers. And you have the answers seem correct, right? Like these answers are correct. And my mentors or my friends or the guys I hang out with have all confirmed these are the correct answers. Right? That can be fair, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:15

My mentors are probably not. But I but people don't because they they're where they are. I just accept them for who they are.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:27

No, fair enough. I'm I'm really just re- I'm just repeating kind of back. Like this is like confirmation that's the truth for me, let's say that. Okay, good. So like the the identity of the I am, what you say you are, you will become. Um, you know, and then like you know, well, what would you want also opens up the ability to start sliding in uh changes to beliefs and manipulate. That's what the communist thing and the cigarettes and the homeless guys and then also uh we give meaning to interaction or things that create our belief systems. And then that shapes our identity. And then we have to teach them detachment, and only then can they really start to really heal then. Um but if you try and take away the growth element of it, don't as you know, mentor or coach get wrapped up into that because if you try and skip their growth too much, they have every right to kill you if you went back 300 years ago and take their growth from them.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:16

Well, I don't have to be right, but they just will. They just will, right? Because it would be too scary for them. Fear would be so intense, and the powers that be then would be afraid of you that you were gonna take that power away.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:27

They'll have to protect what they have, and so protection would have to go to some sort of either avoidance or aggravation for sure. Really? So on this one, I do want uh I do want to kind of go into the solution part a little more than the answer part. And this is where it's it's it's more helpful. So like there is a element of how do you get someone to detach, especially when identity is linked into a trauma or identity is linked into something that went really, really hard for them. There are stages and there is patterns in which people do this. And so I'm curious. I'm like, well, the answer is to understand it happen for you. That's the answer. I get that. But then how do you get a solution to go like here's how you solve it? And instead of everybody's different, there is uh there are patterns to like, no, there are things that you have to do for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:17

Yeah, well, I you know, for me, the easiest way to get people to understanding is ask them questions so they come to it on their own. It's much easier if they tell themselves rather than you tell, right? Because if you tell them there's there's resistance to that, right? So if you help them come to that conclusion by you know, like I said, the CIA, you know, and uh all these uh countries and military have these same techniques, right? You know, is America perfect? Well, no. Now you've asked them a question and now you've opened the door, right? Um so asking them questions. And so when you say uh just to be clear, you said that when you're going to take someone through a transformation, there are specific things that you do to do that. Is that what you said? Yes. And I and I haven't given some of those examples?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:12

You've given the answers, but not the way that to do the solution. You've given stories and analogies and metaphors, but not solutions.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:23

Okay. I'm not getting that. So can you do me a favor? Can you uh give me an example of a solution?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:29

Perfect. Okay. So if I see somebody whose identity is linked to a trauma, most people are going to do what you said. And in fact, it's trained mostly today in psychology to go into helping them discover belief systems or even go through the emotions that are attached to belief systems to make it so we can try and rewire the beliefs. Because beliefs are much easier to rewire than values or even control the storm of emotions. So it makes sense to go into emotions maybe very difficult, they change like the weather. But belief systems we live and die for, and beliefs are linked to our identity directly because we live and die by our beliefs. And you're correct, those are the filters. But if I'm going into just beliefs first, I didn't rip the core out. And that's why I was wondering why the answer is they have to figure it out themselves as I ask them questions, but I mean there's no direction. When I work with people, almost every element of trauma or loss or you know, pain is linked to grief. Every single part of it, even your whole entire story to start off with was linked to identity from pain and loss. Well, then that would mean I have to go into your grieving system. That's where your identity got tied up. Is you lost the authenticity of self. You live in denial towards truth, you've created a protection system to not die anymore because of how much you've lost or to keep what you still have. And so people are now trying to survive. But I have to get them through their bargaining and what's valuable to them. I have to get them acceptance of truth. I have to go through the anger and the emotion of being able to see what's your moral compass and who the hell are you to what you believe is right and wrong, and then go through sadness because the depth of your sadness is linked to your empathy. You cannot have compassion for somebody if you've never even experienced the emotion. So experiencing the emotion now means when somebody's going through something difficult, I now can create connection to help you get a direction. But if I don't go into your grieving system and I stick just to the belief system, this is like me trimming a tree and never getting to a root, which means it keeps growing back. And you may do maintenance, but you never actually get removal. So until you can go through effective grieving systems, I I think we're just doing management, coping, or medication at that point. And that's the same thing they teach in psychology today. It's not growth. It's identity still to it, but now it's got a different level of like, I know it happened for me, but why does it still hurt so damn bad? It's like we didn't grieve it. We just put another label on it. And that creates a whole nother issue because now I got the correct answer, but I didn't I didn't solve it, which means I I know the answer looks like this. I know Steven told me all the colors look the same on each side. And he said, I'll figure it out on my own. But I'm sitting here fucking spinning this damn thing, and I know what it's supposed to be, but I don't know why it still has the anger, the sadness, or resentment. He said I'm supposed to let it go. He said I'm supposed to forgive. He said I'm supposed to be okay when I just understand that it happened for me. I know the answer, but why isn't mine doing it? It doesn't make any sense. So that's why I was asking, well, what are the steps to make it so that we can solve the cube? Because I do meet a lot of people who have the greens down. They got the greens, but the rest of the cube isn't done. And so they want to be going like, hey, I'm gonna teach you how to get the greens. But that actually isn't solving the cube. So that's why I was asking, well, what are the solutions instead of just, well, these are good answers. And that's what I meant.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:02

And that's what you believe, right? Yeah.

unknown 1:31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:07

That's your belief, right? And if that's your belief, it'll work for you. Maybe it'll work for your clients. I don't believe that for a second. Let me tell you. Let me tell you why. Because what you're trying to do is cover everything and think you're gonna create the perfect human being. It's never gonna happen, right? You're not gonna have someone that can get all the greens, all the yellows, all the reds, all the blues. What we're doing is finding a way to help them with something particular or a few things in particular they're dealing with in their life. And you don't have to give them all the way through the grieving process. The change can happen in an instant, right? Let me give you an example. So during the war, it was the Second World War, there was an American pilot who was one of the best pilots, and he killed more uh Japanese pilots than anybody else. And he was gonna take a break. They said, Listen, you've got to take a break. So he landed, and I and I don't remember the name of the airport or where it was, one of the Japanese islands, right? So he was uh he got off his plane and he was walking across the tarmac, and while he was doing that, there was a fight, a dog fight going on in the in the air, right? And the American shot down the Japanese plane, and the pilot was thrown out of the airplane. That pilot landed on the tarmac in front of him. He didn't need to go through a grieving process, he didn't go need to go through any psychological tools. He changed in an instant. He said, I'll never fly and fight again. Boom. Now, before that happened, his belief was it's a great thing that he was serving America and that he was the best pilot in the American Air Force, and he felt great about that. But you can change in an instant, Rick. You don't necessarily need to go through a process, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:01

What was his trauma? Let's look at our things. I get the story, I understand. And this is kind of where I'm gonna actually challenge you a little bit to speak to you. Good, let's get to it, man. This is where we get to talk to me with competency here. So you don't have to give me long stories to understand an idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:17

All right, hold on, let's just back up a second. Let's not attack each other, right? I'm not attacking. I'm just hanging on you know. Here's what I'm gonna say, because you said talk to me with competency, which infers that I wasn't, right? So and I'm not gonna say you talk to me with competency, right? Because that's not gonna get anywhere. So let's just be nice, let's be respectful, instead of, and this is what I feel from you coming a little bit, you're trying to be superior, and you're not. I'm not. I think this is you, Doc.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:43

You're rejecting on me.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:44

Hang on a second, you keep interrupting me. Let me finish. Let me finish. So you're making accusatory statements to be right. Put your ego back in your pocket a second, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:33:53

You're gaslighting the fuck out of me.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:55

And I'm saying because I'm trying to talk. Let me finish, right? Let me see. You're laughing because that's showing that I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:01

No, you're gaslighting me. That's not right.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:04

I'm not gaslighting you, man. You're gaslighting me, you're telling me that your way is the only way.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:09

And it is sure didn't say that either.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:11

You said because I said that you don't have to go through all this psychology to get there. And you didn't like it. I mean, anybody can see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:19

You never said that either. You're gaslighting me again, Doc. You don't have to do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:22

You're gaslighting me, right? No, I'm not. Now you're trying to we're having an argument. I don't want to argue with you, man. You're not arguing. You're making up the answers for me. Because you're not letting me finish what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:32

You do it again. Let me finish, just let me finish and then I'll let you finish. Okay? Is that fair? That's how you have a conversation, man. One person speaks and then the other responds. Is that how is this how you are in your in your sessions where you're just arguing with somebody? Doesn't make any sense, does it, right? So let me finish and I'll talk with competency, right? For a change, according to you, right? That's very, very negative way to speak to somebody. And uh coming as someone who knows all these psychological tools, that is not a good sign, my friend. All right, that's not a good sign. So, anyway, I don't remember what we're joking about, to be honest. So you go ahead and share what you wanted to say.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:18

What I'm saying is I appreciate you telling the stories. If the stories are for the listener, cool. But if you want to prove a point with me, I don't require a long story to do so.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:31

Okay. So that's what I'm saying. I'm not proving anything to you. I am talking to your listener because that's what we're here for. I'm not here just to have a conversation between you and I, I'm considering your listeners and how they would understand.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:45

Which is great. Now I'm saying, let's talk with you and me, because you said I absolutely do not agree. Now, I will tell you, I hope you watch back at this thing because you do say things that I didn't say that are mine. Those are not mine. You have been saying, Well, you're saying you only they have to do this, and there's all you're perfect. You said you're going to cover the perfect human being. These are things I did not say. And I would say, please watch back and say you do add things to what I'm not saying as my own. And the more you create a straw man argument for me to say, you are saying that the only way to do it, I'm like, I never said the only way to do it. These are also dangerous within conversations. And to insinuate you're just trying to be superior to me while you try to create a control system in the conversation is the exact projection of what you're saying. I'm just saying these are the tricks in the conversation. We don't need to do those. I'm agreeing we don't need to argue, but I would say, please, uh don't add things to what I'm saying that I never said as a point of saying, here's why I don't agree with you, because I never said those things. In fact, I've done a lot more listening than talking in this conversation. So in this one, the belief system saying, like, oh, because that guy was on the tarmac and he didn't have to go through a trauma grieving system in order to change his uh his mind or opinion on his identity. Well, that's great. But how many people are you working with who are struggling with the trauma they went through or the things they went through as their identity? Like, and they can't break the cycle, no matter how much you said, hey, you got shot down, that was for you, dude. And you're like, fuck, but it fucking I'm still bleeding, you know? And so the tarmac guy is great. But when you're talking to some of the people who have been through real shit, and I don't think you understand it, I'm the guy that call when nobody else can help them. I'm the suicide calls, I'm the fucking the people who are fucked. I'm the ones who call for that because some of these techniques are missing elements that that person needs. And so while some of the answers might be good, they're they're not miss they're missing huge elements of what that guy may need in those moments. So it's not a one size fits all, my way is the only way, or my arrogance at all. In fact, the entire conversation we've had, there's been a high element of superiority in the call. You mask it as humility, but it's not. And so I'm asking questions for clarity for solutions without deflection or gaslighting. I don't see how that works for us either. So I'll leave it there. I don't see I don't see that part.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:19

Hang on, you're leaving in there. I got to respond, right? So first of all, hang on, let me finish. You did say it's the only way. If you don't get to the grief and get to the tentacles of the grief, you have to do that. It's the only way. You did say that, right? And then you said, I don't need your stories. Again, thinking I'm talking to you, I'm talking to the audience. And the fastest and best way for people to learn is through stories. So don't negate stories, my friend. And you said that some of the techniques I've given were missing something. I never said that every or any technique that I was sharing with you was the be all and end all to anything. In fact, I said, I really don't want to give you techniques because there's not one that's going to fit all. There's going to be lots of techniques that will work in different situations, and I find out all about the history, the person, their background, what religion they are, what beliefs they have before I will do anything, right? So go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:23

And that's what I'm agreeing with you. And speaking in absolutes, I don't I'll be real with you. I can agree that you weren't saying 100% absolutes. I'll agree with you there. I also didn't either, because I know that's not true. No, but I don't believe in absolutes on the C.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:40

If you don't get to these, the grief, you know, you you've got to get to that to create healing. And you did say, you know, then there's this, and you use the Rubik's Cube, right? As an example, you've got to get to this, you've got to get to that, which means they had to get every side, which means, in anybody's mind, right? Well, you didn't say it exactly, but you inferred it categorically that unless you get someone perfect on all four sides, or how many sides a Rubik's Cube has, right? Then you haven't done the work. And I don't agree with that. And so you did say, A, that they have to do certain things to be healed. Two, you did say that you have to get all of the facets out to be able to give people what they need. And very often you don't have that long. And then you told me in the end that you take the suicide course. Well, we haven't been talking about suicide, right? We haven't been talking about that. We've just been talking about people generally having passions, right? We didn't get into with this work if someone.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:39

I'll take it back then. I'll take it back. I actually do stand by this then. You're right. I actually do stand by. I believe to do real transformation, you teach them all the sides in the cube. You're right. Okay, I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just saying I agree with it. Hold on. I I will say that I believe that is right. Okay. And so we do not have to agree on this. I do believe helping somebody through mind, heart, body, spirit, even on their finance side, and all this, there's six sides to the cube. I believe getting all your elements is important. And I believe that you can learn how to solve a Ruse Cube. I believe that's possible. Yes. I do believe that anybody can learn the skills to do this. And I do believe each side requires time, effort, and understanding. And in order to get to true acceptance by not having a grieving system or a system to be able to understand denial, bargaining, anger, sadness, which is both mind and energy for heart or spirit. If you don't have those, you're really going to struggle with the belief systems actually ringing true true authenticity because you're not actually being true. And creating more masks or more validations or more systems or structures to get what you want without actually getting to those things. You're right. I'll stand by there's a way to solve the cube. And we can teach it. And I don't think that you can teach somebody how to solve the cube without going through understanding grief. And I'll stand by it. That I do agree with.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:03

Well, I and I'm not saying that isn't true, but we don't always have that long, right? And we can't always do all those things. So what we want to do is do the best we can for as long as we can. But the most important thing that we need to do initially is get them out of this trauma that they keep repeating in their life. And if we do that, there's a good chance they might stay with us for longer, but there's also a chance they might not, and they'll go back and then have other issues, but not that one. I still have issues, man. I'm not the full cube. I'm not the full cube. And I've been working on this stuff for 40 years, right? So um, and I'm not I'm not I'm I'm not saying I'm the fastest learner or the sharpest tool on the shed, but I'm pretty sharp, right? So um we're not I I I just to me it felt like, and you didn't say this categorically, but you are saying it now again, inferring it, that if they can't, if you can't get all the sides, which sounds like it's perfection, then they're still gonna have issues. Dude, we're gonna have this issues until we die. There is nobody that is not gonna have any issues until they die. It's just not not possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:07

Perfection is different than understanding how to do competency. So if somebody can solve the cube, it didn't say nothing's gonna happen to mess your cube up. Things happen to mess your cube up. I got it. Well, of course, then life happens, something will happen. The issue for what I do, and this is why it is different, maybe how we do it, I spend a lot more time with people. I have years with people because we have to get all the sides. I don't teach them like, hey, just understand it can be worked differently. I'm like, look, if I teach you how to solve the cube, you don't have to be concerned when life happens that it messes your cube up. And people get afraid to let their cube get messed up instead of going, it's okay that you can mess my cube up. I actually just I know how to solve it, dude. It's fine. Yes, life is gonna happen. Yes, I'm gonna have a death in the family, yes, I'm gonna lose money here, yes, business will go crazy. Yes, I just know how to solve it again. Oh shit, this went out of rack. It's okay, it's fine. I'm not gonna freak out about it. I just know how to solve it back in. Get the blue-I know how to do it. So when I say know how to solve your cube, it doesn't mean you're a perfect person. It just means I don't freak out when things happen anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:14

Yeah, well, that's a different thing. And so, you know, semantics, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:17

Uh no, it is, it's all semantics. In fact, our business is semantics.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:21

Well, anyway, whatever it is. I have to go because I've got another point coming up, man. But I've enjoyed as you might not think so. I enjoyed it. I love being challenged. Hopefully, you don't mind being challenged.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:30

No, no, no, it's totally fine. It's totally fine. I love it. Like it's you're not bothering me at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:35

No, no, no, me either. But um listen, man, I uh uh I want to say thank you for having me on your show, and thank you for challenging me. And I hope you know it was done in good faith. And I mean I'm good. We feel passionately, we feel passionately about what we do, which is a good thing, man. Uh it's a good thing. So uh I hope we can do it again. I'm uh doing my own podcast now, and uh, if you'd be interested in come on and challenge each other again, I'd love to have you on there, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:02

People don't usually publish when I'm on shows. So if you if you want, um if you got the if you got that bravery, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:08

But it was you. I'm not gonna bag down on that one. I love what I do, and I'm passionate about what I believe in. I can see that in you too, man. You are authentic, you are authentic. I'll give you that, right? Because you're not gonna let anybody push you around on what you believe, and neither will I. And that's why, you know, sometimes these kind of conversations build the greatest friendships, and I hope that's the same for us too.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:28

I'm I'm good with it. Sounds good. Yeah, if you ever want to do something like that, sure. Sounds good, Stephen. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:33

Beautiful. Thank you, Rick.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:34

You're welcome.