116. The Evolved Man's Journey to Deeper Relationships with Nick Matiash

When we think of the modern man's role in relationships, the image is vastly different from generations past. Nick Matiash, from The Evolved Man, joins us in dissecting this evolution, revealing how today's man navigates the complex waters of emotional availability, communication, and self-improvement. We unpack the tough questions around co-dependency, maintaining individuality, and the profound impact of a father's legacy, all while exploring personal anecdotes and professional insights that show the undeniable ripple effect men's self-growth has on their personal and family lives.

The landscape of love and commitment is ever-shifting, and as I share my own journey towards becoming a more present husband and father, we confront the inevitable insecurities that arise when one partner outpaces the other in personal development. How do we bridge that gap? Through conversations on empathy, understanding, and the courage to set boundaries, Nick and I address the art of expressing vulnerabilities and the importance of mutual respect in crafting emotionally rich partnerships.

Rounding off our insightful dialogue, we reflect on the joys of marriage, the freedoms of single life, and the societal influences shaping modern relationships. With a focus on self-care and the transformative power of coaching, such as that offered by the Evolved Man, we delve into how prioritizing oneself leads to stronger connections with our loved ones. This episode is a must-listen for anyone keen to understand the multifaceted roles men play today and how embracing change can forge deeper, more meaningful relationships.

Connect with Nick Matiash HERE! 
TikTok

Click the HERE to choose your path!

Click HERE to choose your path! 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

What's up, warriors? Welcome back to the battlefield of mind. I'm Rick creator, the Warriors way in mindset, and I am here today with Nick Maytash Right you got it, maytash, I didn't want to screw it up, because it's the words, letters, the evolved man himself.

Speaker 1: 0:23

And this is to Men's Warriors. We both run our own men's organizations and we're gonna be going over some of the stuff that Not only is working against men but works for men. Together, we're gonna go over tough topics and so for any of you ladies who got your guys take notes, and any of you guys who got ladies, take notes, because we're gonna be giving you something to fill out the pages, nick, catch people up on your side, tell them what you do and let's start kicking ass together.

Speaker 2: 0:48

Yeah, man. So, as, as Rick mentioned, I run the evolved man. I've been doing so for the last six, seven years or so, a company kind of dedicated to helping men in their lives initially, and then I kind of, along the way, realized that there was a big gap in relationships, relationship dynamics, just a lot of pieces of the puzzle that guys just either aren't explicitly taught or, after being taught them, they just don't retain the information because it never was really valued or important to what they felt like it was supposed to be. Being a man and being that provider, protector, the whole thing. So anyway, along the way, accounts like alright, there's this hole in the market, there's this the space within men that I'm pretty good at, like just Unabashedly, like I, I'm pretty good at this role of husband and father.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Obviously it took a lot of work and still contains a lot of work, but being able to help and communicate the information that's necessary for men to, you know, take in the best parts of themselves but also pour into their relationships In the best way possible is kind of the mission at the evolved man is giving them the tools to kind of put to bed a lot of some of the old school, you know, emotionally distant, not very communicative, just be a paycheck type guy. Let's evolve, port towards something that can still be the paycheck and still be the runner of the house. All that stuff is cool, no problem with it whatsoever. But adopting some new skills in the relationship realm of your life so that you can, you know after the door closes, you get home and you want to relax with your people like you actually know how to in a fruitful way that's kind of the essence of what we do is give guys those tools and obviously Relationships can be messy and there's a lot of left turns, right turns and everything that goes with that.

Speaker 2: 2:29

So it is has been a great gift for me to, to learn how to, because the thing is, the information is the information, but getting it to men in a way that they understand it and they understand what it means to them and and why it's valuable. That has been most of the work for me. Like I knew, I knew the information backwards and forwards, but helping men understand it in a way that actually resonates with them has been part of the journey. So, yeah, man, I've been, you know, in the trenches with guys similar to you. It's, it's a fun ride. It's Sometimes a dark ride, but it always does come out the other side if both sides are intentional both myself and our clients and it's. It's really one of the more fruitful corners of my life, which I'm really grateful for. So I appreciate you have me, man.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Yeah, no, it's an honor man. I'm glad to have somebody else who gets on the trenches. I always love it. People have been there like we find relatability very quickly. Um, I work more personal, personal, like I just I help people do their deep, deep psychology work. I go into the darkness of that one person.

Speaker 1: 3:24

I'm not a relationship expert, so I'm gonna be leaning in on you for more relationship questions today. Sure, cuz I'll be very open with you. I'm responsible for more relationships not working than working. Like I've found that when I have two healthy people and I was just on a podcast this morning with with another person who found the same, she works with the women, okay, on the same thing is that when one person starts developing and becoming far more healthy, yeah, seems to be a dissonance in the relationship as the gap gets too far.

Speaker 1: 3:54

Sure, and yeah, this is something where I kind of want to lean in on what your experience has been over the last six, seven years Of when you're working with maybe the man Mm-hmm starts to evolve into a healthy version, but the start of it was well, hypergamy was there and she chose equal and up, and you are both not healthy. When he starts evolving to be healthy and she's still not. How are you bridging this gap? Because it seems to either become sabotage, or she works for it and one kills it and one gives you guys a fighting chance. What are you running into with this whole issue?

Speaker 2: 4:32

Yeah, man, it's a great question. Honestly, this is is lived experience for me because when and I'll kind of get to the point of why it is important to understand the dynamics of the relationship in order to kind of bridge that gap. But so when my wife and I got married it was 2015. So we've been married eight plus years now, have three beautiful kids. But you know, when I became a husband, I always tell guys, husband felt important. This felt significant. You know, I was a good boyfriend, I was a good fiance, I was a good guy. But you know, and looking at my dad dad also a great husband, good father, all that stuff. So I had a good playbook to run with.

Speaker 2: 5:09

But I basically maybe my, you know, competitive nature grew up playing sports, whatever I was like, I want to be the best fucking husband, father I possibly can be. So it just kind of broke open this part of me that was like I got a study, I got a research, I got to figure out what works, what doesn't work. I have to put aside my ego and kind of un, un, unleash whatever I can find within me in doing that work. So that was in 2015 and so, you know, come 2016, I'm starting to invest in myself, hire coaches and mentors, get into masterminds, things of that nature. And you know my wife is, you know she's an amazing person, but at the same time, she's looking at me doing all of this work, getting up before the sun, meditating, reading all these books who you know. If you knew me in 2013, 2014 didn't didn't fucking gear. But 2015 came, I became a husband, like all right, now I'm doing so. It was like a switch that she saw within me and Part of it is like okay, cool, my husband's getting after it. That's, that's solid. But at the same time, what does that bring up for me? Does that bring up that I'm not good enough for him? Does that bring up that he's trying to find someone else that is on the same level as him? So, like there's a lot of questions that come up from that. It was almost like this rubber band effect of like, okay, stretching, stretching, stretching, stretching, stretching, and you have two options. The breaking point is one of them, which is one breaks away and it's like okay, this is my net.

Speaker 2: 6:27

My journey over here is an individual one, because the relationship wasn't working. The, you know, the rubber man comes back together is when I think the relationship dynamics become really important, because, seeing that within my wife, like, of course she's not mad at me that I'm bettering myself, of course she's not upset that I'm going to Like, her conscious mind doesn't think that I'm going to leave her. I love this woman more than anything that I have in my life, but it's insecurity. It's seeing that, acknowledging it and and then communicating down to like, hey, this is. And and coming back to the purpose of why I want to do this in the first place, again, husband felt important to me. Husband means I'm associated with you. Like it's not about me, you know, getting on a stage and talking to a bunch of people. It's not me making millions of dollars, like those would be cool and eventually will be awesome, can't wait right. But in that, in that moment, in 2015, 2016, I think this is about me Optimizing who I can be so that you have a husband that is incredible.

Speaker 2: 7:27

And our kids eventually, now that we have them, three of them have a father that will, you know, take care of them, that will guide them, that will show them the love and the empathy that they need from their father. All of that stuff. Like that's why I'm getting up at 5 am, that is why I'm hitting the gym, that and she didn't see all the connecting points in my mind as to why it was purposeful work. And I could easily see in that same situation, if I don't come back to her and Sit with her, communicate to her like this is why this is happening, and give her that purpose of the process. For me, her stories are gonna be of insecurity. It's gonna be of he doesn't want to be with me, he's gonna leave me, he's trying to find something better and like no, not even a little bit. My purpose is in Making sure what we're building here is is a sturdy foundation, isn't just on a whim. And you know, lo and behold, now it's been eight plus years.

Speaker 2: 8:19

Eventually it kind of clicked for her, made sense for her, like okay, I see that and you know, honest, honestly, honoring the words of that too, and coming back to her frequently and saying, hey, I know it's been a couple months since we chatted about it, checking in, all that being important. You know, I think that is one piece of it, that that helped bridge the gap, but I think another part of it is and I say this to my guys all the time. Like everybody has a different, everybody has their own door that swings open to the world of personal development. Like if you're in the trenches, you know doing the transformation, the personal stuff. Like it's either pain or pleasure, it's either pain or Something that inspires them.

Speaker 2: 8:53

Mine was inspiration. It was being a husband. I wanted to be a really, really amazing husband. My wife's kind of cracked open when she became a mom and it was like I need to make sure that I'm taking care of me so that my kids can see a healthy mother, so that my kids can see A healthy dynamic between me and you, and not to say that she needed a lot of stuff to, you know, catch up with, because she's again incredible in person, just status quo.

Speaker 2: 9:15

But you know, I think that game of kind of bridging the gap is almost a game of patience as well, because at some point I think everybody has a door that swings open. And if you're watching your partner already in the trenches and you have a door swing open, it's like okay, I guess I get it now. My wife didn't get it when I was just trying to be a good husband. She was trying to be a good wife too. She was an intentional human being, but like it made more of An impact to her when the seasons changed and she became a mom and like that's where her development, that's where her intentionality comes from. Mine came Four or five years earlier than that when we got married actually, I'm sorry, three years earlier than that, because our daughter was born in 2018. So you know, that was a long way of saying like, yeah, there's gonna be a gap. If one person is striving, the other one isn't.

Speaker 2: 10:03

Communication becomes key. Reading the room becomes key too. Like if you're a guy trying to grow and you kind of look around and you're like, why is she upset? Like Ask questions, communicate, try to get down into the trenches with her and figure out where that's coming from.

Speaker 2: 10:18

Because if you just kind of play it from an ego standpoint, being the guy, let's say he's on the rise, she doesn't want this for me. She's, you know, she's jealous of my growth. She, you know, those types of takes on. Looking at your own gap in your relationship Is going to cause a lot of disruption. But if you can kind of humbly take a step and be like Okay, I've been doing this work, I wonder why this is upsetting her. Why? Why is she feeling off about this? And then kind of bring that to her and have a conversation, because otherwise that gap is gonna continue to expand and then eventually the rubber band breaks. You want the rubber band to come back together. That comes from, you know, the, the intentionality and the communication of, of Seeing what's going on, rather than just kind of letting it lie until something erupts, which never is good for anybody.

Speaker 1: 12:04

No, and that's. It's a really tricky battle right now. It's really hard for people to go through this stuff, the insecurities, the reassurance. I like these had the purpose of the process and then like, yeah, that's a tough three years for her. She's watching you just rocket ship and like, listen, this is my experience. I've had men's groups and women's groups. Men just seem to go faster. They just be like three to five times faster because we don't process as emotionally as women do. Sure, not to say women don't get it, it's just as faster. I can get five or six things done in an hour with the guys. I get two things done with the girls same hour, and so it's not good or bad, it's just that is that's how it works. And so that rubber band starts to get noticeable. Mm-hmm, it starts to get. Now you had three years of a band. Yeah, three, three years before her door opened. She's like, oh, the purpose of why? Okay, I get it. Like it takes a minute. Three years of reassurance for you.

Speaker 2: 12:56

Yeah, and not to say that this was happening every day, but every once in a while, like once a quarter, let's say, she would, whether you know, whether it's a Facebook live that I did, that blew up and I was like excited that, oh, okay, people are actually talking about what I'm trying to share. Or, you know, I signed a client, or you know, I have certain dreams of x, y and z and like who is this person? What? So it's just sitting down and noticing, like okay, the wheels are starting to get a little loose. We don't want them to fall off. Let's sit down and check in.

Speaker 2: 13:25

And again, coming back to that purpose, I think is important because if it's just about, well, if the purpose is detached from the relationship not to say that it has to be about the relationship, but if the purpose is about the relationship and you're not communicating that and letting her like this is actually for you I know it looks tangential, I know it looks like it's over here, but it is really here at home like I want to make sure and like, like I said, it wasn't every day, I could understand how, if it was every day for three years, that would be pretty exhausting. Luckily for me it was not, it was luckily. You know I was getting it. You know I think that I Mean.

Speaker 2: 14:00

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a part of the reason why it was not three or every day for those three years was when the conversations did show up. I didn't run from them, I didn't get defensive, I was just trying to listen, find the insecurity, address it and make sure that she felt seen and heard and walked away knowing that. You know, I'm not trying to run away, I'm not trying to go anywhere. You know, give me enough of a bandwidth for the next few months where she's good, she feels secure in that.

Speaker 1: 14:26

You know that's that's a pretty, that's a pretty reasonable window. They even have a once a quarter, because I know a lot of times, once the gap starts becoming noticeable, a lot of my guys, I do it. It's like every other day. Yeah, like it's getting, it's getting frustrating that I keep reassuring like no, it's for us. No, we got this. Babe, it's for you, this work. Look down, look, it's our best interest. What are you doing? Like there is no other person but you? What are you doing? Stop it. And at some point it does get exhausting. Sure, and on that note, I've talked to a lot of people who are also relationship coaches and the concept of autonomy comes up pretty often. What is your opinion in relationships, relationships especially like the marriage element of like still having a sense of autonomy within the relationship?

Speaker 2: 15:10

Autonomy?

Speaker 1: 15:10

to what extent do you mean like having your hobbies or the independence element of like if, if something goes catastrophically wrong will be okay, like if you know where the I guess the concept would be instead of um, we compete, and the whole idea of you complete me To, we complement each other. So you know the whole 50. 50 creates co-dependency, but 100, 100 makes 200 and we're stronger together. Right, that's the concept of you're good, I'm good, together, we're better.

Speaker 1: 15:43

Yeah how are you with that concept of like? You know, if it all goes wrong, she'll be fine, you'll be fine, but we don't want it to go wrong, sure, but if it did like, let's say today, because you know like things people are weird today, let's say she's just like Nick, I'm done, I'm gonna go and be with John now. What the fuck just happened, which is some guys real life You've seen it yeah where he's like I would to work.

Speaker 1: 16:06

I came back and she's just gone and all my things are gone and I don't know what the fuck just happened. Sure, like she was clearly planning this for a while, I didn't know. But his co-dependency now makes it so he's in a maximum loss. Instead of like well, if you're abusing me, I I can go. I don't have any other option here. So just before I get into, like where men hold ground or boundaries, like what do you think? Just on autonomy, do you think it's necessary or just don't do it?

Speaker 2: 16:35

I think it's necessary for a lot of reasons, the first one being, you know, if you feel like you've lost yourself within your relationship, it is an incredibly isolating situation if, because the nature of relationships, you're two different people coming from two different places, there's gonna be conflict, there's gonna be strife and stress and, you know, bills, whatever, there's gonna be a lot of stuff that does not go perfectly all the time. And if, in the midst of that, you feel like you have lost yourself, it's it is depressing, and I will say this like candidly my wife and I just had our third kid three months ago, so he's three months old, and I'm not saying this from a place of like I feel like I've lost myself, but being in the newborn phase but I don't know if we checked in on this but do you have kids? Give kids Nice good for you, man.

Speaker 1: 17:24

So yeah, we got three teenage girls, so if you want, no, pray for me.

Speaker 2: 17:28

That's got. I say God bless you. I got one girl, one girl, two boys, but anyway. So we had our third kid three months ago and newborn phase is just overwhelming. There's a lot of stuff moving and shaking. You're getting used to the dynamic of three and you having three kids, like you fully understand right. So the the one day I'm like sitting in the playroom with my three kids, my wife was, was working and would be gone for another 30 minutes to a 45 minutes. I'm just like. The first night was a year ago. He's not here right now.

Speaker 2: 17:57

The guy that's getting up at 5 am and has time to himself, can drink his cup of coffee without disturbance. The guy who can meditate, you know, in the middle of the day without noise and craziness around, like having those things that that meant something to me that I valued, kind of being evaporated in. And again this is isolated to a newborn phase. Obviously we're gonna get our footing and like we're already seeing chunks of that being built back into place, but this was like a month ago. So I'm just sitting there like man One. This sucks. It's not a good feeling.

Speaker 2: 18:27

Objectively like, if I look at the situation, I'm incredibly blessed. I love my kids, I love my wife, I love the life that we have, but that part of me not being there doesn't feel good. The second thought was there are guys that feel this not in the newborn phase all the time, so I'm just like, fuck, okay. So to that end, like autonomy becomes incredibly important because if you do have that feeling like I felt that feeling like I don't know who I am here, I don't know what my purpose is within this family, because my wife runs the show and I'm just kind of a yes man, I'm a person that just shows up and does like all of that stuff feels awful. So autonomy becomes incredibly important to find your own space, even if it's just, like I said, my space prior to having our third kid, because with our second kid he's three now. So we had our structures, we had my early mornings, I had my workouts, I had my, so like that stuff was already in there and then, third, one comes in and just snacks it all away, but anyway.

Speaker 2: 19:25

So like having that morning time, having workout time, having, you know, weekly or monthly hangouts with your friends, so that you have space that isn't husband and father, and this is true for the other side too. It makes it a healthier relationship, because that feeling of I have lost myself in this isn't there. You still are a person that's contributing to the whole, and that's a beautiful thing is when you can feel like you have those spaces and you are an individual while also contributing to something bigger than yourself. Whereas, you know, a lack of that dependency of my sole purpose is father and husband. That's the only reason I live and breathe Again. Father and husband is the most noble thing that I've ever fucking done, but if that's the only thing that I am when it's all said and done, I don't know. It just doesn't sit right with me that I didn't have an individual lane, something that felt.

Speaker 1: 20:20

Different legacy, Like for how old are you right now, Nick?

Speaker 2: 20:24

I'm 35.

Speaker 1: 20:25

35, so this is around the same time when I started running into the legacy thoughts Okay, like, how will I be remembered? We don't really care. 30 and under, I didn't give a fuck. But, like, as I started hitting 35 and up, I started getting into, like, what will the dent in the universe I leave behind be? What will my impact, what will the ripple be for my existence? You know the whole thing with Maximus what we do in life echoes in eternity. You're like well, what will my echo be? You know, will it be like some jabroni that nobody remembers? Or is it gonna be like? You know, I talk to guys. I'm like what was your great grandfather's name? And they're like, man, I don't even know. And I'm like that's how long we get remembered.

Speaker 2: 21:06

Right? Have you ever seen the quote where it's like you die three times. You die, the last person visits your grave and then your name is spoken the last time, the first time? I read that like I teared up.

Speaker 1: 21:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 21:17

Oh man You're hitting legacy.

Speaker 1: 21:19

That's not a-.

Speaker 2: 21:20

And you think that that would last a long time. But that's what. I'm 35, that's 150 years from now. That third one happens, yeah right exactly If we're lucky, if we're blessed.

Speaker 1: 21:31

If we're blessed Right.

Speaker 2: 21:33

So yeah, legacy thoughts are definitely hitting hard. I think I don't know if. When did you have? How old were you when you had your third kid?

Speaker 1: 21:42

Oh no, we've got a 17, a 16, and a 13.

Speaker 2: 21:45

Okay, how old were you when the third one was born?

Speaker 1: 21:48

I actually didn't make them, I just been raising them for the last Just been raising them. So I didn't create them, I just raised them.

Speaker 2: 21:55

You can create the three girls when you're raising them.

Speaker 1: 21:56

I'm just here for the hard phase.

Speaker 2: 21:58

Wow, what a beacon of hope for the world. But yeah, I mean the legacy stuff is, I think, just even ever since we knew we were gonna be having our third kid.

Speaker 1: 22:08

Well, even with that, these girls will not be my legacy, because it's not like they won't carry my name, right? I remember that Like so, remember, I raised these children, but the principles that I instill, those will read on way after I'm gone. Right? My legacy will not, most likely will not be through the daughters. Most likely, right, and that's reality. Check on that one. So here I am, investing decades of my life and all of my resources, time and energy that goes into raising human beings, just to have the fruit on the tree at the end I probably won't even get credit for.

Speaker 2: 22:44

Well, shit that hits.

Speaker 1: 22:46

Yeah, right, so that's step parents. So that's where I'm at, where, here I am, doing a volunteer gig for something that will get one-tenth the recognition of the person who does way less, who just happened to sleep with the person before I did, and they get more credit doing way less work.

Speaker 2: 23:04

Yeah, it's funny that you say that. I was talking to a buddy yesterday who his parents got divorced when he was real young. So his childhood experience of relationship stability was not strong, didn't have a lot of models of what does it look like husband and wife communication skills, all that stuff. But his step dad is like he's just, he's incredible, he's an incredible man and he stepped into their lives and was this beacon, this lighthouse for him. And he came into his life later when he was a teenager and probably didn't care too much. But like, looking back on it now as he reflects on it, like if Jeff was the step is the step dad's name, like if Jeff didn't come around he'd have no fucking clue. And like so, even though Jeff is not blood to him and he would never, I don't even think he would say it out loud that Jeff matters more than his dad does. But like Jeff has absolutely had a bigger influence on him, aside from the biology and the DNA.

Speaker 1: 24:04

I've got one of those too. I've got a Ray like. So Ray came in when I was around 11 or 12. I think it was around like early teens also, and I'll be very open 10 years of that fucking asshole teenager. I am a dick Like. I was not, and I was also very troubled teen. I came from very troubled upbringing and so I had a lot of things I had to sort through. I was a rage monster man. I was that fucking guy and so it was. I was not good. I wasn't a good kid and I know that my step dad like hit.

Speaker 1: 24:34

The patience this man has is one of my as a mentor. It was one of the traits. I was like man. I need to practice what this man does, because I was a shit kid to this dude and it was. It was more than a decade before I was like damn dude, like you're a big reason why I'm all right. It took like 10 years and I'm in the situation now where I know that I protect, provide, preside for these girls. I know that they have a life where they can afford to be dramatic because they're not in danger. Right, you know they are blessed enough to worry about prom dresses and not worried about fucking panthers in the front yard, like we're safe, we're good, right. And so here we are in a situation where I know that I probably won't get the recognition or appreciation for what I do for maybe another decade, especially the young one. She's gonna be like maybe 25 where she goes. Actually, you were pretty cool, thank you, and I'm like that's all. I've been waiting for a decade. Thank you so much. It's been 25 years.

Speaker 2: 25:37

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 25:37

Like it's gonna be one of those and so it's a tough job. But also with this I had to also assess an autonomy thing for the relationship. But I'm gonna bounce back because the blessing of fatherhood I think we could probably go for a while on this. I very rarely. How often do you run into guys? I did this survey with my men. How many of them don't like being fathers?

Speaker 2: 26:00

Well, yeah, it's a good question. I think a lot of them love the idea of being a father. I think there's some of them that don't currently enjoy the experience of being a father because, whether it is I will say it straight like it is the most challenging thing I've ever done and ever will do to keep my shit together, to not project my own stuff onto them. It's challenging and if you don't have the tools to kind of walk through that, you're gonna end up in battles with five year olds and seven year olds and it's not gonna be pretty and then your wife's gonna be mad at you for blowing up. So, like the experience of fatherhood, it can be the most daunting thing on a daily basis, but the idea of being a dad like knowing that, like you're saying, this legacy of this person came from my. I look at my oldest son's face and I'm like that's fucking me, that's me, that's little man.

Speaker 2: 26:53

Yeah, I mean he's literally so quick sidebar. I carbon copied my parents' family. Like I am the middle child, there's three kids. It's daughter, son, son, daughter boy boy, girl, boy boy. We have the same. It's daughter, boy, boy. So the middle child is me and I'm the middle child. So like I look at, he's got curly hair. I don't have curly hair, but like I, he's my boy. I love that guy.

Speaker 1: 27:17

But yeah, man, he's little. You with a different Lego hair.

Speaker 2: 27:20

He's got my dad's hair and my face. Okay, it's great, but yeah, man, it's fatherhood. I think the concept of it, the legacy of it there's so many guys that I know, and I also know this to be my experience too Like this is the thing that I wanted to do more than anything was to be a dad. I wanted to be a husband, for sure, I wanted that. I wanted a beautiful relationship, which I have, which I'm grateful for but like being able to look at little humans and be like you're here because of me, I'm gonna make sure that you're okay until I'm not here anymore. Like that is the shit, and there's, to that point, not a guy that I've ever talked to doesn't like it. It's just the experience sucks. Same result.

Speaker 1: 28:03

That whole thing, but even still, the troubles that come from raising a kid. Each of my guys and I went through this survey probably a couple hundred guys and I was just like how many of you really like the fatherhood is the line? You're like, fuck this job, I hate it. And everyone's like, no, they're kids, they're supposed to do crazy shit, doesn't bother me. Yeah, he broke things, but I broke things so I can't be that mad at him. Like they seemed like that wasn't the problem. When I surveyed what's the hardest part about fatherhood, it was probably the high 90% tiles of it's her.

Speaker 2: 28:36

Interesting.

Speaker 1: 28:37

Mom's the hardest. She makes the most problems in the house and they're like I like being a dad, but she bitches and complains when the kids are just doing kids stuff and then she puts that on me and now that's a problem. Now put that into split homes, sure, what's the hardest part about being a dad? It's the ex-wife.

Speaker 2: 28:57

Well, yeah, I mean it's a very small situation that has to be up there, because you know again, two different people, two different perspectives, and now you're doing it in two different locations, so you have to reset every time you come to a different place, and so that Well, it comes down to power.

Speaker 1: 29:12

at that point too, and with the way the court systems are set up, who usually would have more power?

Speaker 2: 29:19

The women yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:20

Right Now you see what happens if she's got power. Is she fair? Is she just? Is she kind? Is she compassionate? Is she empathetic? Odds are no.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Well, especially if it's the dynamic of a divorce too, if there are ill feelings towards the person she divorced, like yeah, they're gonna use the kids as a weapon.

Speaker 1: 29:42

So who really suffers? Yeah, the guy's gonna be like this sucks, I hate that shit. But who's really getting, who's having to pay the price for it? Who pays the tab? The kid Right? So this is where I'm like I don't think that's as cool, the way that's getting set up right now, and this is where, like, I kind of have a little bit of a dads seem to like being dads. But man, ladies, you're not making it easy for like the kids to have a chance here. Yeah Cause, let them be a good dad. You don't have to like him. You can hate his guts. You don't have to be best friends with that guy. If it didn't work out, it didn't work out. But give your kids a damn chance here.

Speaker 2: 30:14

Yeah, I mean, if divorce is the thing, if we're talking about that dynamic, like obviously the relationship didn't work, kids have to be the focal point. It can't be about bitterness, it can't be about spite, it has to be 100% like these things came from us, were responsible for them.

Speaker 1: 30:32

He said things, these things, these things.

Speaker 2: 30:35

Sometimes I look at my kids like oh, you are, you are things to be, you're a mutant right now.

Speaker 1: 30:39

Oh this, this creature, this damn creature that came from us.

Speaker 2: 30:42

Right, these little humans that came from us, so we have to. Well, it's, it's a priority and responsibility, but it's also a form of protection, like you said. Like who gets, who gets the the passed down trauma from all of that? The kids, and then they're if they don't check in on that, they're going to pass it to their kids. Like there's a long line of passing down stuff and if you can prevent that by being a mindful and intentional human as you parent them and as you walk through whatever relationship stuff needs to be walked through, you know that's. You know, speaking about legacy, it doesn't feel like the sexiest thing in the world to not bicker with your ex-husband or ex-wife, but like that is just as important as anything else in the legacy conversation.

Speaker 1: 31:24

I feel like it's more, it's more problematic that it feels sexy to argue with my ex Like no the fuck it isn't.

Speaker 2: 31:30

No, I mean, I'm talking. I'm talking about the sexiness of when we talk about legacy, the sexiness of like I got to build a million dollar company or I got to you know, you know, give my kids a lake house so they can always rent, like that sexy, right, as the sexy part of the legacy conversation type thing. I wasn't saying that it was sexy to argue with them, but no, that's not sexy. But the important part is, like legacy wise, if you are not with your person but you have kids together, like be focused on those kids because they're going to walk away from it. You already walked away from that person, but they're in it still. You can't be screwing with that. That's no good.

Speaker 1: 32:07

You're in the manosphere. I'm going to keep on this topic for a little bit. I'll jump back to the other one in a minute, but on this one, all right, let's the divorce one. We got that one. What about the ones where there's a lot more going on now with the emasculation of men in the home and guys aren't able to hold a line the way they used to in any type of strength? Like there's an issue that's happening right now and I'm seeing a pattern. I'm not making the judgment yet, I'm just there's a pattern of like damn little girls are really going hard. I've got a lot of police officers on my guys and they're like we end up at a lot of domestic abuse calls that are women hitting men but guys won't report it.

Speaker 1: 32:42

And the numbers are showing that women are hitting men way more or emasculating men way more, but guys won't press charges or report it because it's shameful for a man who's six, three, let's say, I just got beat up by a girl's five, one. So, like, what are we doing here? Where we're like how does a guy hold his line today? Like what would a healthy way for you to say, like a man who's in these dynamics to go like, hey, I need you to stop doing that, or else what's our or else that you would have for men today?

Speaker 2: 33:15

I mean, are we talking about actual domestic violence or are we talking about just like dynamics of feeling like you're being emasculated? Walked all over that type?

Speaker 1: 33:22

Let's just play with all of it, Cause I mean what hurts more, physical or emotional.

Speaker 2: 33:27

Do a shit. It would be emotional cause, like my wife's five too. She's not going to physically harm me in a serious way.

Speaker 1: 33:34

Sticks or stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Well with what we work with you're like those words have fucked you up for 30 years. You'd rather take a punch in the face.

Speaker 2: 33:43

Right. So I would say I mean there's a lot of different, nuanced parts of that in my opinion. Obviously, the I think self-awareness for both parties is incredibly important. Unfortunately, a lot of adults lack self-awareness. It's not in high quantities from people that I've talked to, whether it be my clients or their wives or whatever, but so like there's a lot of lines of thought generation to generation about what it means to be a man and what you're supposed to do, like our and like to your point. Like there's guys that aren't reporting it because it's shameful, that they didn't want to get beat up by it. You know their wives.

Speaker 2: 34:22

But I think another part of it too is there's like societal conditioning towards men, that is, don't show that you're stressed, don't show that you are at a weakness of some kind and don't, you know, ask for help. That whole that kind of line of thought of like, be a man, suck it up, take care of business, doesn't matter. It is harmful to dudes, especially in those types of situations, because if in the back of their mind it's like nope, I'm not gonna bring it up, not gonna talk about it, I'm gonna shove it back down and suppress it. And if you've worked with men like I've worked with men like suppressing how you're feeling and what you're thinking is poison. It is the greatest poison that men will ever taste. It's rough. So how do we solve that problem? I think it's obviously there's two people in that conversation, two people that need to work on stuff for the women, specifically in the scenarios where they are probably crossing lines, and masculine whatever they're doing.

Speaker 2: 35:17

Self-awareness is incredibly important, like asking yourself does that seem fair? Does this seem important? Cause there's a ton of women in my comment sections on TikTok and on Instagram. Some of them have valid points and concerns and shares. Others I'm like, okay, that was a little off, that was a little off-centre, I didn't feel like. You know, a cohesive and happy relationship comes from that thought. So I think self-awareness of am I being fair, am I being just? Am I, you know, communicating harshly? What's my tone Like? The thing's basically that I ask men to think about. Like what are you in control of? What's your tone like? What's your energy like? Are you being fair? Are you being honest or brutally honest? Cause you don't need the brutal, you can just be honest, and that stuff, I think, could be a focal point for the women, for the men.

Speaker 2: 36:05

It comes down to letting go of and putting down this idea that you aren't allowed to speak up when you are experiencing some kind of pain, frustration, emotional discontent. Because if we can let go of that, then we open a door to like, oh okay, I'm gonna speak up and start sharing and start drawing boundaries. Like if you were to walk up to any guy in the street and ask him what kind of boundaries he has in his life, I think most of them will probably laugh because, like, men don't have boundaries, we just tough it out. Who cares what people do to me? Like I'm just gonna keep taking it and keep fighting through it. And I think there's an element of that that is helpful. It's purposeful, like, just keep taking it and keep going, keep taking it and keep going.

Speaker 2: 36:46

But when you're in a relationship and you're trying to spend a lifetime with a person and there's this pattern that keeps continuing, it's not gonna stop unless somebody says something about it. And that, you know, comes down to the men opening up and sharing. Like, hey, that's no good what you're doing here, what you're saying here, what you're communicating to me or how you're treating me in front of the kids. Like that can't happen and that boundary might look like if you can do whatever you want to, but if that continues, I'm going to be, you know, pulling back in some way. You know I'm gonna be finding my own place to live. I'm gonna go live with my parents on the weekends, whatever it might be, go ahead. It's your point that you think that's the autonomy.

Speaker 1: 37:25

That's the autonomy element of. There is no other card that I've seen that's more healthy than. If you don't stop treating me like shit. I gotta go. Yeah right, that's the only card. We can't beat them up anymore. That's not gonna work, no, you know. And being verbally abusive, that's not our best strategy, no. And then starving them to death or tying them to a radiator, that's not gonna work. And so we're gonna have to do something. That's gonna have to be a healthy way. These unhealthy ways, they don't work.

Speaker 2: 37:52

No, they do not work Right.

Speaker 1: 37:54

So the only thing nowadays for guys does seem to be like autonomy. Now, this is running into a few things that you brought up. You brought up the fairness being just the suppression of our feelings because it's shown as weakness. Now we're running into one of my largest battles for women, and this is something where I surveyed the shit out of my boys because I'm like please tell me, this one's not true, but it seems to be very true. And when I work with women, they seem to be like oh shit, it's this one word that they say that they're the best at, but don't do it for men. And it's the empathy element. Empathy for your man.

Speaker 1: 38:33

Now you said we have to be able, as guys, to be able to go like let me just open up and share what's going on in this thing. I got a soul, I got a heart. Let me share what's going on. There's a hurt in here, and guys you're not wrong Struggle with articulating the emotions. We've had to suppress them for so long. You're right, it's the hardest fight for guys is the denial element of feelings. I'm fine, it's fine, whatever is what it is. We're good, but you're not good. But you also don't know how to articulate. You're not good.

Speaker 1: 39:02

So when I've seen my guys listen to these girls who say I want you to show me your vulnerability, I want you to show me you crying, I want to see that, well, these guys go all right, you fucking ask for it and they'll do their unload and they'll say I was so hard and I was abused and they're all this shit. And then I watched these women stop being attracted to their men Interesting. They stopped doing it. They're like.

Speaker 1: 39:31

I've seen guys who are like yeah, I opened up to her and now we sleep in separate bedrooms and she won't sleep with me. And now she doesn't like, she hasn't shown like, or she judged me, or she said you're being kind of like a sissy, or it's hard for me to like look at you the same after that. Sure, women don't seem to be interested in the hearts of men more than like the well-being. I think they confuse empathy and well-being as being the same thing, and what I mean by that is I folded the laundry, or I did some cooked you dinner, or your shoes are by the door for work. Those aren't emotions.

Speaker 2: 40:03

Sure.

Speaker 1: 40:05

And so if a guy is like I'm really heavy in my heart today, it seems like and if your comment section or anything like mine, the first thing you hear is well, what about mine?

Speaker 2: 40:15

From the women Like. What about my feelings?

Speaker 1: 40:18

If you're like guys are really struggling today and they're really struggling with their emotions. Listen, I have a very weird following and we're pushing like 350,000 people who follow our stuff and it's 50, 50. Oh no, it's just the craze. It's the craziest. I'm not leaning one-sided, it's like it's 50, 50. When I show people my algorithms, it's a big number to be 50, 50. That's weird, right.

Speaker 2: 40:41

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:43

And yet almost all negative comments come from women, almost all Interesting. And that's very interesting to me too, cause I'm like ladies. What is it so if I have a video about a veteran who say he was almost killed himself because his emotions were heavy and nobody cared, right, and I go, but he found his purpose and found his way out, and this is how we shared part of the story, the ladies are like well, that's been happening to women for a long time.

Speaker 1: 41:09

So what about me and you're like ladies, ladies, stop. Ladies, empathy for men. Now, when I run into couples, almost no women are doing it for their men and I did a survey for my guys. I stopped at a hundred because I asked them three questions Do your feelings matter to you, do you believe your feelings matter to her and do you want them to? And across the board they was asking if they don't matter. No, they don't matter to her. Yes, I wish they did. There's only three guys out of the whole thing who said I actually think my girl has empathy. Two of them were within the first two weeks of a relationship that both of those didn't work out and one of the guys was in severe denial over his relationship and they're divorced.

Speaker 2: 41:51

Okay gotcha, that's interesting.

Speaker 1: 41:54

So I mean, like, well, looking at it, I don't think they were really that empathetic.

Speaker 2: 41:58

Well, yeah, I mean two weeks is too. You can't. There's really nothing. You can put a gold star on in two weeks. I mean I'm thinking back on the first two weeks of knowing my wife and it was fucking fantastic. But like I'm not gonna bet the house on that, I'm not gonna say like this girl is gonna be the mother of my three children and I'm gonna move away from home, which I did, but after a year of knowing her.

Speaker 2: 42:23

So, yeah, man, the take that you mentioned about the veteran and him, you know, having these emotions and it was weighing heavy and it's hard, and all that stuff, I have definitely seen the take of like it's been hard for women, it's always hard for women, and I think my here's my, I guess opinion on it is like two things can be true at the same time. That's my view on most things. That's why I don't get into heated comment battles with a lot of people because their perspective is true. But also, to like to the point of the veteran, like it's true that his emotions were weighing heavy, he found purpose. That's beautiful, it's amazing. It can also be true that women have been struggling, not in the same way, but struggling right, and I think, for those that that try to kind of Knife their way into those conversations and say, like I'm also hurting and this is also a problem for me, they're unable, unable to Play the two games. Two things can be true at the same time, because I think a big part of empathy is being able to do that, because I could, you know, thinking about, like me and my wife, I could have had a hard day. True, if I bring it up and she says, well, my fucking day was hard, that's also true. Like we can, we can talk about this and and not make it a battle, not make it who's had Harder time, who's? So? That empathy comes from the ability to like know that my situation is true for me and their situation is true for them, and it doesn't have to be a competition. But you know that they either take that you shared and the one that I've also seen in my comment section where I talk about you know, the, the trials and tribulations of being husband, how stressful it can be, whether it be, you know, putting food on the table and then also taking care of yourself, and also like trying to get your girl out for a date. Like this is incredibly hard.

Speaker 2: 44:08

Moms have it hard too. Yeah, I know, I know they do and you know ladies of if you're a follower of mine have been around like I Agree, it's hard for everybody that hasn't is an adult that has kids, like you. All have different roles and they're all very challenging. Like I, for instance, my wife owns a makeup business. So you know, during the week I'm usually doing my work and then during the weekend when weddings are happening, she's usually out doing her work, so we will both have individual alone time with our children. Now, up until three months ago is only two, but now it's three.

Speaker 2: 44:44

So, like I've lived the life of single, like being the Lead parents, if you will like, being home with my kids, changing the diapers, putting food on the table, doing the laundry, doing it Like. I know that if that's your role, it's hard, but I also know the role of being in my office and trying to get work on the, on the board so that we can make some money and help some people and all that stuff Also hard. It's like the Maybe it's experiential that I understand what it's like for my wife so I can sit with her and be like, yeah, it is, our kids are very loud sometimes, I know Like. So I get it. But maybe the empathy that's lacking is a lack of experience of seeing the other side, witnessing the other side, and by not being able to do that, it's like my my job's harder, my work is hardly.

Speaker 1: 45:28

It doesn't have to be would you say, this empathy issue is a men Just don't get it for women, or women can't do it for men.

Speaker 2: 45:34

I Think everybody is capable of empathy. It's just a matter of Are you willing to step aside from your own shit to see the other person, right? Yeah, because the that like if a woman is is talking about this veteran story and saying mothers have had it hard for a long time, yeah, if you can just hold that in one hand while also holding the veteran story in the other hand Doesn't have to be a problem.

Speaker 1: 46:00

It's the dismissiveness, though, and that's where I've noticed it's not and it's just mine. And when I will talk with my guys, a lot of the women who Completely shut down empathy for their man have trained their men that they are not safe to share with. So if a guy says, yeah, I'm really having a hard time right now with what I'm working through, she's like you're having a hard time, let me have, I'll tell you, my hard time. I'm having the worst day ever. Never like oh my god, hold on.

Speaker 1: 46:27

Or I've seen guys have real heavy burdens put on them that could affect the family. Hey, they're doing cutbacks at work, or I'm getting sued, or something has come up where you're like Damn, this is heavy. And I've seen the women immediately go into self-preservation instead of empathy and go well, if you're gonna have that, then it's all on me, then I have to take care of everything. Then, instead of going what's going on with my dude, right? They go fuck this guy, I'm doing it myself. Then, which turns into a whole shit show, right? And that's what I'm saying Is, is we're missing this element where I asked my men do you have empathy for your woman, do you care about her feelings? And my guys like, yeah, I'm like would you die for your woman? Mm-hmm. And like high majority are like I would die for my woman, I would die, so she's okay. Yeah, could you say the same the other way?

Speaker 2: 47:16

Hmm interesting thought I.

Speaker 1: 47:19

Highly doubt they'd be like, oh yeah, I would. I would die for him. Like, really, because you won't even listen to him, right, and you die for him. Hold on a second. No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't. If there's a bump in the night, you're not going. I got it, baby. Like no, you fucking don't, you don't fucking got it. You're like go get it, nick, go get it, you don't fucking got it. Don't say sure.

Speaker 1: 47:45

Yeah, and so I'm going to get. And so yeah, like rock paper scissors, baby up, could you make paper your turn?

Speaker 2: 47:54

That's 50 50, by the way. What are you doing?

Speaker 1: 47:57

Yeah, women are. Women are saying they wanted 50, 50. Did you watch my video? I did is, I think was last one, you probably didn't see it, but I had a. I had a lady on the show, hmm, and I challenged you know, like, hey, there is a. There's an element where the ladies dropped the ball on their guys and the guys will fuck this game. I'm gonna do autonomy and I'm out, hmm. And they're like, yeah, well, men are just quitters. I'm like, well, they stopped cheering their man on. There was a.

Speaker 1: 48:19

There's a degree where she started off as like she's the reason I'm alive. She makes me feel the best out of all women. I know no one lifts me like her. Sure, nobody makes me feel like I can dominate the universe like this beautiful, amazing, powerful woman. Yeah, she loves what I do, she encourages, she cheers me on, she has my back, she ride or die. That's my baby, mm-hmm. And then somewhere she just stopped doing all that shit. And the guys like, well, I'm not even impressive to her, she doesn't even care anymore. I'm like, babe, look, I just built this amazing thing where I got a world record or I'm in the top 10 in the world. And they're like whatever, did you end up taking the garbage out? You're like fuck you like you stopped being impressed. I even said last night on our live that disinterested people are not interesting.

Speaker 2: 49:04

Sure yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:06

So if you're like hey, rick, I got a Ted talk coming up and I'm like good for you, dude, whatever I I.

Speaker 1: 49:14

Do I seem fucking cool? No, I just like it makes sure it makes your amazing thing coming up boring or stupid. It makes you not want to share anymore, right? And so I'm looking at the empathy element on the ladies. I'm like I think there's some room here. Oh yeah, there's a little bit of room here. And our guys are saying I can do it for her, though, I can have empathy for her, but they don't have empathy for the men. And so then who's supposed to be running the show? The person who has no empathy for one of their members of the pack?

Speaker 2: 49:42

It's a fair question, fair point. Now, the only question I have in return is you know, unpacking what it looks like for a guy to have empathy for his girl? You know, because their emotional experience is so different than ours, and what they're going through, what they're experiencing especially if it's, let's say, in the traditional element of their taking care of the kids and You're taking care of the finances that the all that stuff is is, you know, empathizing with that, like saying that you will empathize with someone, is different than actually empathizing, different than actually being able to do it. Because I think if you were to Ask a woman straight out, you can tell me if I'm wrong, because you work with women. If you were to say like would you have empathy for your man and how hard he works, or whatever, it depends, like sure well their.

Speaker 1: 50:27

Their answer goes into well-being and never a feeling.

Speaker 2: 50:31

Okay, tell me, what that means.

Speaker 1: 50:33

Well, I cook, I clean, I care of this thing. I do this. I'm like those are all doing. I'm like have you ever connected with his being? Hmm, have you ever gone like, how's my man's heart today? Not, did I do a task today?

Speaker 2: 50:48

Gotcha. So they interpret that is are you taking care of him? I made him a meal, right? I've watched laundry.

Speaker 1: 50:54

If I bought you a shirt. Is that empathy?

Speaker 2: 50:56

No no.

Speaker 1: 50:58

There's no feelings involved, but they're like but that was a really nice thing I did. I'm like it is a nice thing, true, but not one thing that you just mentioned is a feeling sure.

Speaker 1: 51:07

Yeah, how often do you go house my man's feelings today, right, and I I've only seen one in years who's like I really can sit and he can cry all over me and that's my guy. Yeah, like the rest of them are like, fuck that. He's my rock, he's the one who needs to be strong. Yeah, I can't have him do that. The whole don't show weakness things. That's usually trained at first from dads, later by women, reinforced heavily.

Speaker 2: 51:33

Oh yeah the reject.

Speaker 1: 51:34

Then, like I even had that experience as a kid, I when I realized I was grown up in an abusive home because none of my friends could relate to the shit that I've been through. When I realized, wait a second.

Speaker 2: 51:44

This isn't normal.

Speaker 1: 51:46

I'm, I'm truly fucked up. I didn't know this right now, like 15, and I realized, if I started crying to my girlfriend at the time, like I'm realized I have a lot of shit, she broke up with me the next day. Sure, that's what we learn if you show your vulnerability and weakness or your cry or whatever it would be the Traditional shit like definition or judgment of it you just get rejected. They just throw you in the garbage. And I've seen guy after guy call going hey, I did the whole agenda where, like, women are better and do everything for her, and then, after she was built up, she left me for Brad at the office. What the fuck just happened?

Speaker 2: 52:26

I Don't know what just happened.

Speaker 1: 52:30

We don't know either. You supposed to work right? She's supposed to have that hypergamy element. It's supposed to work both ways. We're like she can be above you with finances and career and life and growth and women will happily look at their man as A dependent that they take care of and they're happy to do it. They're happy to write Fuck. No, they're not. It hasn't been working. That guy gets fucking abandoned and he loses his kids, he loses his house, he loses his marriage. And he was just doing good guy, nice guy stuff.

Speaker 2: 53:00

Well, yeah, the good guy, nice guy, stuff is it's a dead end, like it feels good on the front end, like yes, ma'am, yes, wife, I'll do this, I'll do that. The guy always tell guys like happy wife, happy life is bullshit. I don't fall into that trap and it's not because you shouldn't take care of your wife, because you should. But if you are happy wife, happy life thing I always kind of call it a trajectory of different Communication is happy wife, happy life fits into a bucket of passivity. It's just like, yeah, do whatever you want, babe, great. Yeah, why don't? Let's get a lake house, let's get a boat, let's get a jet ski, it's fine. No, we're in debt, it's fine. Like that's just happy wife, happy life, cool.

Speaker 2: 53:37

Eventually that's gonna wear on you. You're gonna turn into a passive, aggressive person. So you're just gonna be sarcastic, you're gonna be a prick and the message is still not gonna come through, the message being I'm not happy here, right. And then eventually your passive aggressive will turn into aggressive. And not to say that you are going to be physically aggressive, but you're gonna start shouting, you're gonna start raising your voice, you're gonna start projecting the pain that you haven't shared up until this point onto her, or like a couple of my clients, because we've been working a Lot of guys with infidelity lately the aggressive behavior is fuck this, I'm gonna go and she I'm gonna go find something else that feels softer, that feels like they care about me, they respect me, whatever. So like that happy wife, happy life trap, you started over here with the best intentions to let her do whatever she wants to do, but you didn't have any boundaries, you didn't care, and it just you get to this place of like, fuck this, and it's either you're angry verbally or you walk out.

Speaker 1: 54:32

Well there's. There's another thing. I was watching this because this has been going on the white nighting, you know that kind of shit's been going on for it's been a while and it just got real loud within the last like within the last 10 years it's gotten loud. Yeah, these are like the women are better at everything and anything they we can do, they can do better and all that shit. Like that whole thing where put women on the pedestal? What's wild, as I was watching, like whether it be newscasters or people who fall really far into that agenda they there was a lot of guys who started getting arrested because when they would finally end up in a sexual situation With a woman, there would be so much pent up Anger that they would physically beat them to a bloody pole.

Speaker 2: 55:17

Jesus fuck but yeah, it's like it was the most.

Speaker 1: 55:21

It was the most extreme, and one of the guys was the newscaster who was like women are better at everything, and when he was having a sexual interaction he pounded her into oblivion. This regression of like that, that, like, like you said, that put her on the pedestal Passive, aggressive energy that gets pent up where she's better, she's better. But you know it's cognitively not correct, right, soon as it turned into a release, it turned into just a brutal display, right, and that was wild to me when I was watching. Like this is happening at the extreme. It's the extreme and yeah, you're watching that. Like the guys who are super extreme, like girls are better at everything, yeah, as soon as there's actual interaction, it turned into physical abuse.

Speaker 2: 56:07

Yeah, I'm not. I mean, I hate that. I say that I'm not surprised, but again it like comes from that place of. Like I'm gonna be quiet and I'm just gonna let them Run things and be the be the pedestal, whatever. And then I'm gonna get sarcastic and I'm gonna be a prick, but she's still not hearing me because I'm not being direct. Okay, fuck it, I'm gonna go all in and I'm gonna start saying things that I've been waiting to say for five years. So it's not just fuck you, it's fuck you.

Speaker 2: 56:36

And so like, yeah, right, coming out a whole lot more aggressive and and and just the, the, how visceral it is is so heightened because it's been pent up and that, you know, goes back against it. Like men need to open up and share stuff on the earlier end and not be the passive person, not sit back and listen. And again, it's obviously relationships are a two-way street and you can't just blame one person. But, like I always go back to for men, like, what can you control? Can't control your wife. You can have influence, of course, but you can't control her.

Speaker 2: 57:06

What it can you control here, it's your dynamic, it's your Language, it's your energy with your tone, all that stuff. So get good at that. And then, if it's still not coming through on the other side, if she's still not respecting you she's still, you know, giving you shit and looking down on you and all that stuff use the tools that you've built up on and Communicate a boundary, or tell her and, going back to the point of autonomy, like I can't do it anymore, I'm gone because I can't stay in this place. But you know it's Relationships are messy, I guess is the long way.

Speaker 1: 57:39

It's a messy. But that's where. That's where I very much agree with you that Boundaries and the only boundary a man I've been able to I've been any time I work with a man the only healthy boundary is if you don't appreciate me or treat me abusively, I will remove all my provision. You don't get to have me anymore. Like I'm gonna have to go. If you, if you're not gonna, if you're not gonna try and pull the rubber band back and you just gonna let it snap, I'm just gonna go.

Speaker 1: 58:07

Like this is you can't, don't, don't, talk to me in a way that's so disrespectful. You want to tear me down. Don't nag at me all day long. I want to come home to lowest lane, not kryptonite. Hmm, like I don't. There's so many guys who will sit in the driveway when they get Home for like five or ten minutes, like Fuck, I don't want to go in there, you know, and like they're like they have to almost like do their decompression in the car because as soon as they walk in the door she's all over him, sure, and it's like he just did 14 hours and he does physically dangerous work.

Speaker 2: 58:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:42

You're like hold on that the dude, give the dude a damn second. Yeah, you know, and yeah again, you're just watching where it just the suppression leads to expression. Somebody blows the fuck up at some point. But the only thing a guy can do he can't beat her up, can't do that stuff. He's got to be like no, if you don't calm the fuck down or stop treating me like shit, I'm not gonna be with you. Right, and he has to be able to actually enforce it.

Speaker 2: 59:04

Oh yeah, empty promises, no matter who's saying them, are just not gonna work Because they they are noticed quickly, like as soon as someone notices that it's not Actually a thing that would be enforced, your fight like a quick fun, a quick, funny side story to this. That relates is so we have three children, as mentioned. I have an older daughter and a Well, the three month old he's not really significant to the story. So we have the older daughter she's almost six and then we have a three year old. Six year old, great rule follower, follows directions very well, like the typical firstborn daughter.

Speaker 2: 59:39

And so, like we have this, this hatch light in her room that has a certain color and sound machine in it. She knew that when it turns green at 7 am, you can come see mommy and daddy. We'll start our day Weren't flawlessly for a long time. And then my son moves into the same room as her as we prepared for our third kid to get here and Him being a three-year-old, who's also just moving into a bed instead of a crib and also like, didn't sleep as well as she did previously. He would just get up out of bed and come see us at five in the morning and she'd be up and she'd be like what the fuck is this so like?

Speaker 2: 1:00:13

as soon as she noticed that what she thought was the rule or the promise or the the, the words were spoken like, this is this is with the boundary. And soon she saw her little brother not following direction and also not getting pushed back into the room. She's like you know what? I'm gonna go see mommy and daddy? I'm like fuck, god damn it. So I always say Henry, henry, art, our three-year-old, he fucked it all up because he showed her that it wasn't exactly as enforceable as it was. And not to say that we, you know, need to keep our kids in a room for a certain amount of time, but like it was a good structure, to the boundary of, like I was saying before, that 5 am Wake up time for me. It's a house in space for myself, before my kids are up and sprinting around the houses you probably can hear in the background right now. Like it.

Speaker 1: 1:00:57

I thought you were at a ball.

Speaker 2: 1:01:01

No, my children above my head, just be in my children. So like that. That is just another like tangible example of if. If you're gonna make a promise, if you're going to say like this is what I'm going to do, if this continues and you don't, and they notice like I'll respect, best of luck to you, because it's not gonna go well from there for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:01:26

This is tough man. Let's go into some harder stuff. This is right. I very much agree with you the autonomy. I've talked to a lot of relationship coaches with my guys. I was like, please Give me a better thing than if you don't treat, if you don't stop treating me, shit I gotta go. I'm open to it, but that's so far. It's been the best thing for guys right now, which is why let's go into a little bit of a weirder area. Okay, 30% of men right now are done playing.

Speaker 1: 1:01:53

Yeah, 30% of guys are done playing. A smaller percentage that have gone this whole red pill and Migtau and men going their own way and screw girls. I'm done with this bullshit. No marriage on the table because a terrible business deal. You're watching a trend going this direction where guys are looking at, like, if I get married now, mm-hmm, it seems like if this was a business deal I just will get screwed, sure, like. And so guys are not playing anymore. It's at 30% now for men, 20% for women, who are like we're done, we're not playing, I'm done. And relationships are on the decline. Yeah, and oh don't. I'll get to the, the cheating element in a little bit, because especially the lower numbers, it's gets weird. Like the lower ages, it gets weird. So Just with that first part though, like please give me your opinion on the people who are like it's, we're killing our relationships permanently. What do you? What are you seeing in that realm?

Speaker 2: 1:02:50

because I'm not a relationship coach, so you're more in that sure, so just for context purposes, are we saying that they're not in relationships or whatsoever, they're just.

Speaker 1: 1:02:58

You have to be me trying not even trying to get in one. I'm not even talking to girls. You know what my new girlfriend is call a duty. Know who my my new boyfriend is. Social media.

Speaker 2: 1:03:10

Right, yeah, that's a pretty I'm not.

Speaker 1: 1:03:12

I'm not playing anymore right.

Speaker 2: 1:03:16

So I Guess my take on that I haven't run into too many Men in that realm or women in that realm. Maybe it's just an age thing or you know. I think the messaging and what we end up kind of talking about and bringing guys in for is let's talk about your marriage, let's talk about being a father, and so like 22 year old kids, good fuck off, they don't know who I am. You know, which is funny, like I've a niece who just turned 12 and so like she's able to have tick-tock and she's like, oh, maybe get a tick-tock and like, see on there. She's like, are you on there? I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:03:51

My daughters give zero fuck what I do. I'm internationally known. I'm like a big deal. I did a huge, a huge presentation yesterday. Yeah and I'm like isn't that cool? They're like yeah, so I got prom dresses. I gotta get that.

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

It's not important, man, sorry nobody cared, nobody gives.

Speaker 2: 1:04:10

But anyway, back to, I guess, my perspective of of the being done and just not playing the game. For I, well, I will say this I'm biased. I'm just 100% biased because I am married, happily married, in a healthy relationship, and I know that the benefit Versus the risk, if you find a good person, healthy relationship and both of you are working at the dynamics of that, can far exceed whatever you could achieve and or enjoy in life if you're doing it alone. So that's, you know straight up. I'm biased in that in that way. But if I consider myself to be a 22 year old, you know 20.

Speaker 2: 1:04:52

So before I met my wife, I was in a relationship for four and a half years and Broke that off when I was 24, told all my friends I'm gonna be single for a couple years. I'm just gonna play the field, you know, enjoy the, the nightlife and you know, just do my thing. Met my wife a month later Rest is history, canceled that plan. But you know, thinking about why I told everybody I'm gonna be single is it was a Short-sighted thing, like I was in this relationship that I wasn't happy in. That's why I ended it. The one prior and my assumption was, my perception was If that was that bad and it was there for that long and we were kind of inching towards like okay, next step is probably engagement. With four and a half years in here, like it's got to be better, just playing the field and just enjoying life and trying to soak it up as best you can. So I can understand that perspective. I was there for a month. It wasn't a very long existence for me but, like I said, I think it's short-sighted because as you Get older and you know you spoke to the legacy thoughts and the legacy conversation like if, if you got nothing to pass it down to, if you've got nothing to relate it to or or kind of build with. It's a lonely journey, it's an isolating journey and I, you know, I consider the marriage that I have, the relationship that I have to, be the greatest accelerant to my growth as a man, to my understanding of myself as a man, than anything I could have figured out on my own. So it might take for anybody. That's just out.

Speaker 2: 1:06:24

I understand why you might think that that's the move, because you look at the existence of the dating scene, the relationships that you may have had up until this point. Obviously, if they ended they were shitty and you also have awareness to what it might look like on the other side of marriage that ends at about a 50% clip and if you're on the bill for that, it's again business investment. If we're looking at it like that not wise. But in between those two ends of the spectrum, those two ideas, is if you can find someone and also work on yourself enough to build a healthier marriage and healthy relationship, it's gonna give you rocket fuel that I just don't see you getting on your own unless you find something so purpose-driven, so purpose-filled, like building your own business that takes off, and you have this just like beating heart within you.

Speaker 2: 1:07:14

As soon as you wake up you're ready to fucking rock and roll Like if you find that cool. You might not need a marriage to give you purpose, but I think marriages and relationships that are healthy which again aren't the easiest thing to come by because of selection and of relationship dynamics that a lot of people aren't equipped with it's so goddamn fruitful that I can't sit in those shoes and be like that's what I would do. I can't do it. So that's what I would say about that 20 to 30%. Like you were saying that there's out I get, maybe why, but I know that there is greener pastures once you get over a certain hump of things. No pun intended on the, but yeah, that's where I'm at with that. What are the other, I guess, sections of what people are doing?

Speaker 1: 1:08:09

Well, that's a big one. The obvious thing is going to be like the guys who like fuck this, and there's a lot of girls who are doing that. Are you familiar with the studies for like universe? 25 stuff like that.

Speaker 2: 1:08:19

Universe 25?.

Speaker 1: 1:08:21

Yeah, it's a Dr Calhoun, I mean, they've done it over and over again. But it's back in like the seventies, where they had like the mouse utopia and saw what would happen if they had like everything was perfect, and what would happen if they just let this perfect society go on. And, long story short, it had an entire, had a big boom where everything was really great, and then it hit a certain population level and then everything started to get weird, like cannibalism, androgyny, no more reproduction, they stopped making babies. There's the guys who became self absorbed, the women who isolated and the society completely crumbled in on itself and everybody was extinct within five years.

Speaker 1: 1:09:05

And this was mice. Yeah, they're done it with other species too, over and over again. Every single thing that they do, they create a perfect utopia all the food, water, shelter, perfect temperature, no predators, like everything's perfect, yeah. And every single time they do the study they've done it with other animals too and it ends up just eventually, just they all go extinct. And we're running into that whole same thing where, like it's the good times.

Speaker 2: 1:09:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:31

Even though we can look at the news and the world's exploding everywhere like, well, I mean, look at the house you're in, look at the life you have. We're in the good times. Yeah, look at the conveniences that we have.

Speaker 2: 1:09:40

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:09:41

You know we're in the good times right now and so we're creating problems because we don't have real problems. Sure, polarization, for example, men versus women, left versus right, all these things, it's all you know. You're bad, you're good, I'm right, you're wrong because we don't have any actual like problems. Yeah right, that's what we make and so we're just turning into well, we're just gonna go and do our own thing. Now this is turning into some really tough things for relationships. They're dying. It's killing the relationships. Fathers are being removed from the homes, both legally and even if you started getting into the welfare element. It's rewarded to leave a man. It's rewarded, financially rewarded. There's a 70% file rate is women are filing way more for divorce than men by a large number. Women are also now cheating more than men in the younger numbers by a lot. Not married, just relationships, relationships. Okay, like the young girls, it's way more now. They just don't call it cheating. Oh, they call it. He didn't meet my needs.

Speaker 2: 1:10:51

I see, and they're in a committed relationship or they're just like playing the field type thing.

Speaker 1: 1:10:55

Oh yeah, there's some monstrous stuff you can find in this one. Sadia Khan goes pretty hard on this too. She's like noticing the social media trend for what's happening with women. Also, look at the different addictions out there. Here's one. Let's do a hard one. Let's do a hard one together. Sure, let's talk pornography for men. Let's talk social media for women? Sure, all right, so take it your direction on either of those, because, like, is the pornography destroying men who they are, or a social media having a higher effect on women or in men? Like, where are these big problems? On these ones, where it comes to, like, internet interaction, and then considering, with emotional cheating and all of the different avenues that I, truthfully, I'm just gonna be, I'm gonna put that on the table. I still don't know what the fuck that is Emotional cheating? Yeah, it keeps being a different definition for every person you sound like my business partner.

Speaker 1: 1:11:52

I'm trying to figure out, like I'm like, where's the line? Everyone's got a different line. How do I know?

Speaker 2: 1:11:57

Yeah, well, so I'm gonna address that first because I think, just because you're the last thing you said, and then we'll talk about porn. So emotional cheating one is definitely a thing, at least from what we've seen within our company, and all of that. The reason that nobody knows, or like you sitting there like where's the line, what is the thing it's because people don't have explicit boundaries of what's okay and what's not okay. So, like you end up sending a text to someone you work with with a smiley face in it Are you cheating or are you just being friendly? Don't know, haven't talked about it right. So like being more explicit with your partner in both directions, saying like this is cool with me, this is not, this is cool with me, this is not, becomes it incredibly important because emotional cheating is essentially like crossing boundaries of flirtation, emotional shares, talking about the ins and outs of life that aren't just day to day. Like this is my work person, like this is someone who I work with, or this is someone who I met at this event, like if you're talking about things that go deeper than the surface with these people, you're likely edging on emotional cheating. And what is dependent on, or what makes it. Emotional cheating is what? Where did you cross the boundary? But if you don't have any boundaries, if you don't talk about them, if they're not explicit, like who fuck knows?

Speaker 2: 1:13:13

And I think this also plays in with the porn conversation too. Like I've had one client in particular. I remember he was working through some stuff with his wife and he kind of nonchalantly mentioned porn and he didn't think it was a big deal. He's like yeah, I've watched it from time to time, whatever. And immediately she goes red and it's like nope, done, can't do it, divorce. And I mean we kind of sorted through things and helped them massage the problem and try to get to the other side of it.

Speaker 2: 1:13:43

But like her initial reaction was coming from a place of there wasn't a boundary that was talked about. Her assumption was that's infidelity. His assumption was like it's just something that I've seen and looked at since I was like 18 and it wasn't anything to me. It wasn't like a. So again, boundaries and like explicit conversation around what is cool and not cool becomes incredibly important. But to the bigger picture of porn, and I think it's a, I don't think it's ruining men, I don't think that it is. I mean there is some science behind, like what it does to your brain and if you're doing it consistently.

Speaker 1: 1:14:20

But I'm sure you could probably find that with anything that you're doing habitually, that like you're gonna see certain things fire in your brain if you're you know, the frequency element was a big thing, cause I've looked at like 50 studies on this shit and it seems like, well, is it fucking dudes up, are they? They can't go to work and they can't function another day and they're like, well, no. But then there's also like elements of couples who, like it's spiced things up together and they watch it together. So like, if used as a tool, that's been useful too. But there's no guys, except for like the tiniest percentage of like guys were like nine hours a day of porn where it starts screwing up all of their stuff and they have ED at 26 years old and like. That's when, like well, you're doing an obscene amount of anything. It doesn't matter what it is. An obscene amount is gonna goof you up. It doesn't. It could be eating fucking pie. An obscene amount fucks you up. It could be anything.

Speaker 2: 1:15:13

I'm just hungry, yeah, right, but yeah, so I'm watching the numbers for the boys.

Speaker 1: 1:15:17

They're not getting mentally impaired and having, you know, suicidal thoughts cause they're watching pornography twice a week, like it doesn't mess them up. No, and there's couples that has helped, and so that's where it's like. Well, this lady. Is it a control thing then? Is it? I don't like competition, I don't like you even thinking about another bouncing butt or a boob or something Like. What is the thing that makes her go? Absolutely not. Sure, when guys are more visual and it doesn't seem to be messing their brains up. Right, I'm just. I'm asking.

Speaker 2: 1:15:52

Yeah, yeah, not. I mean to your point. It's incredibly subjective. Some people it's gonna be like, okay, let's watch this together, have a good time. Other people it's gonna be this is the end of our marriage because you chose to do this thing. That was not cool.

Speaker 2: 1:16:04

I think to the perspective, or at least just what I've kind of gleaned from learning from talking to guys. What? Why are their wives so upset about this stuff? Is it's insecurity? That's the one thing it's. You're looking at someone who is, from their perspective, more beautiful than me and better shaped than me. Has this that I don't have? Has that that I don't have? You're thinking about them. That's what you're thinking.

Speaker 2: 1:16:27

So, like, obviously, the insecurity emotion is gonna get attached to that, and that makes sense to me. It is now. Does it mean? Does it mean that there's an objective, hard and fast rule around if it's okay for it's not, no. But that's kind of what's at play, and I think for any relationship there are gonna be things that are out of bounds for certain people and it's not ever going to be like. This is a universal rule for all relationships that if you do this, then it's over. If you do this, it's not. That's why, like communicating about what feels appropriate, what makes you insecure, all of that stuff becomes incredibly important. Do I think it's ruining men?

Speaker 1: 1:17:03

No, so on that I'm getting it's kind of just like it depends on how secure your person is.

Speaker 2: 1:17:09

Yeah, I mean to your point of like it brings some couples together. Like if a woman is like, yeah, let's watch it together, that would be fun, they're not thinking, they're not having the thought of he's watching her and thinking about her instead of me. That's not a thought that's going through, it's we're watching this and enjoying this right. So, like, the emotion and thought coming from the insecure person is going to have a different take than the person that thinks that this is exciting. This is something to bond over and therefore you end up in a place where it's going to vary from relationship to relationship.

Speaker 1: 1:17:46

All right. So the more insecure your woman is, the more likely she's going to have a panic attack over this thing, and the more secure, the more likely she's like let me watch it with you, babe. Pretty much, okay, fair enough, all right. So if you look on this other part to it, then if women are going to be doing those parts, did you ever watch there's a couple of different things either Nora Vincent, when she started looking into what it means to be a man? Did you ever watch that thing where it was a woman who dresses a man for like a year?

Speaker 2: 1:18:17

I might be thinking of the wrong thing where she, like, she dressed up and then she went through a day or two or whatever and like her video response afterward was like how crippling and lonely it is to be a man that nobody says hi, that whole thing.

Speaker 1: 1:18:32

I don't, you have to probably watch it. If it's the same girl, I'm sure somebody else has tried to do it. But she would undercover as a guy, for it was more than a year, oh wow. And she joined men's groups. She'd go to strip clubs. She would go and, do you know, ask girls out on dates. She'd do speed dating. She did all these different like men activities and she'd go hang with the boys and do like old thing league. She would do all the boy stuff and they put her in like make up, make up. They did her up. The guys didn't know that wasn't a dude, that was Ned. They didn't know. And so later again, ned was actually Nora and you're like shit, the fuck up that was. I didn't even know, you did a good job, but she was.

Speaker 1: 1:19:13

But she was pointing out how different it was, especially with strip club. When she went there. She's expecting some sort of emotional attachment that guys are doing when it comes to sexuality and she realized that the way that men were looking at sex was not the same as women. Women were more emotionally attached to the idea and men were more visually stimulated, without emotional attachment. And she would watch the guys at the strip club and realize it was more like eating a sandwich than it was an emotional connection. It was just a biological need, like I'm hungry, Let me eat something Now, I'm not hungry, let me go do something else. And then she was realizing it was more biological response than it is emotional connection. And that was her doing her study.

Speaker 1: 1:20:00

Yeah, and I was like fair enough on this one. She'd watch the guys at the strip club. They really didn't care. There wasn't I'm in love with the stripper Like they didn't care. And that was a different experience. She was totally. She was like I was very wrong. I thought it was the emotional thing, nothing to do with it. Guys don't do it that way. And so when we were watching that one, I thought that was very interesting. But then we also go into the things that women. When they're cheating, they don't call it cheating. So when they looked at the studies from Google, they looked up what are the fantasies for men and what are the fantasies for women, and let's see what the correspondence was. As you can imagine, the fantasy study for guys was about eight minutes. Okay, they just looked it up. They were just like they like bouncy boobs and butts and it's just porn. They're all visual. This takes. This was an eight minute study. They're like it's a bunch of visual porn shit.

Speaker 2: 1:20:52

That's all they do that was it.

Speaker 1: 1:20:54

There was, no, it was just like. They just liked the stuff, that's it. We don't really have to get deep Now, women. What they found was is they were more into the fantasy and story. They were the more of like the 50 shades of gray.

Speaker 2: 1:21:07

Right, the more of like the story.

Speaker 1: 1:21:09

I know like the fun books are all the rage, exactly, and so it got into five categories of what women were fantasizing about the most, and the five categories were vampires, werewolves, pirates, surgeons and billionaires.

Speaker 2: 1:21:27

I love that only two of them were like human entities.

Speaker 1: 1:21:31

Yeah, don't get me started with the necrophilia and bestiality. I don't know what we're doing with that one, but like, but if those were the most common searched for women across all of Google. The most common sexual fantasies were vampires, werewolves, pirates, surgeons and billionaires. That's why the 50 shade of gray or the twilight's and all those things were such a boom.

Speaker 2: 1:21:54

Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 1: 1:21:56

And so if a girl is reading and if you look at it, the same study of, like, what do guys fantasize about? It's bouncing boobs, bouncing butts, whatever. And then girls would be like it's going to be some sort of a fantasy story of some sort of billionaire spankiner or a vampire who almost drinks her blood or whatever, some powerful apex monster who's only controllable by her love and she's the most basic bitch on earth. So like that makes it. So I have no prerequisite to be special for this apex predator choosing me. And so like, if she's reading a pirate book, is that cheating? If she's watching Jack Sparrow, is this emotional cheating? Because she's got an emotional fantasy going on, sure, and all you did was like nice, bouncing tit.

Speaker 2: 1:22:48

Well. So it's a good question presented well. The. I guess the way that I'm trying to break it down in my mind is if I were to sit in her shoes and be like okay, why is this cheating to you? It's the tangible visual of that and the attachment to like, okay, you're not just watching porn, like Netflix, you're watching porn and likely masturbating, so you're likely performing an act on yourself while thinking about what you're watching versus and not to say that women don't do that while they're reading the books.

Speaker 2: 1:23:19

I don't know, never witnessed it, it could be so like there's not as a tangible attachment to doing something physical with yourself to that element. So there's one piece of it, the other piece being, you know, I've worked with a lot of guys who have come to us and said, like, because of this porn addiction that I have, like I'm watching it all the time I'm not super interested in sleeping with my wife. So like that, being a detaching element to the relationship, causes stress and strain. Not to say that that's a universal thing that happens when you watch porn, but if that is a that's a high frequency user right.

Speaker 1: 1:23:57

That would be like a high frequency.

Speaker 2: 1:23:59

So if it makes you to replace it and that's when they were looking at that. That's a small number.

Speaker 2: 1:24:03

Right, I mean, I've definitely talked to guys within our company that have experienced that, but obviously they're the guys that are coming to our company are the ones that need help, so therefore they're probably in the smaller percentage. It's a little bit so. There's that part of it and then what was it? Oh yeah, so the direct physicalness of watching porn to what you're doing while you're doing that creates, I think, more of a significant insecurity, right? Like if I'm sitting there and thinking about my wife reading some vampire book and it's making her feel happy, you know, I'm like okay, it's whatever. It's a thought that she's brewing up in her mind, it's fine and honestly, it probably creates more connection than disconnection, right? Like she's gonna be getting into that place for herself to seek me out, not to say that she wants to trust me up like a vampire. I hope not.

Speaker 1: 1:25:00

Well, this is where the emotional cheating part gets weird. What if she's thinking of the vampire story while you're with her, while you're being intimate? She's not thinking about you.

Speaker 2: 1:25:09

Sure, if there are a way to prove that, that would be uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 1:25:14

That's part of the denial You'll never know. But it doesn't mean it's not happening, sure, and yet I need to control what you're allowed to fantasize about, because I mean true or not true. Women masturbate too.

Speaker 2: 1:25:27

It's true yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:25:29

well, what do they think about? Hard to say, I don't know. Well, that's emotional cheating.

Speaker 2: 1:25:33

What if it's not about what if they're not thinking about something or someone else?

Speaker 1: 1:25:39

What are they thinking about? Cars? What is it?

Speaker 2: 1:25:42

Yeah right.

Speaker 1: 1:25:44

But they're gonna tell you a sack guy. But when you look it up, it's not like they're not googling my husband. They're looking at surgeons and billionaires. They're looking up other things that are like masters of the universe. They're not looking up dude. Look up Jack Sparrow. They're not looking at old family photos of you.

Speaker 1: 1:26:02

Yeah right, and so this is where it's like I'm here for the emotional cheating part, let's try and get the line here. But it seems like it's a one-way control streak, that like I could just lie about what I say. But no, but you had to look at something and so that counts.

Speaker 2: 1:26:17

Well, I don't see porn as something that falls into an emotional cheating category. For me, the way that I would define it and think about emotional cheating is you are creating a bond with an actual person through communication, through flirting, whatever. It's not about fantasy, it's not about visuals. It's about having some form of communication that should be exclusive to your marriage.

Speaker 1: 1:26:41

that type of thing. Now you're getting into the message stuff. You did a video. I saw the one where you were talking about the guy who was trying to get like pictures from his ex-girlfriend and all that kind of shit. That's just golden rule nonsense. Where I'm with you all day long Like dude. If you're calling your ex to try and get nudes, what the fuck? Like that's just bananas. Now the emoji like hey, thanks for helping, see you later. Smiley face, like if that's your cheat, we're like what are you doing? Or like even the way that I speak.

Speaker 1: 1:27:10

If my girl got on me one time for messages to somebody for the way I speak, where I'm like I talk to my guys far more intimately than the way I talk to that person, I was like hey, if you ever need backup, I got your back, I'll be there for you, but I do that for everybody, so let me know if you need help. And they're like oh, you got their back, do you? I'm like I got everybody's back. What are you talking about? Yeah, that's just what I just told my guys. I love them today because I love my fucking dude. Those are my brothers. I don't tell that person I love them. Like, which line are we talking about here?

Speaker 2: 1:27:40

Right. Well, I think you're the great areas that you're speaking to like where the fuck is the line? It's not. If it is a gray area, it's not a I'm fucking done, it is. Let's talk about this. This makes me uncomfortable. This X, y and Z over here isn't cool with me, like the, whether it be what you're texting, what you're saying, or even for your point. Like I say this to everyone, it's not specific to them. You know being able to work through that so that it's not just like if, if, if your wife came to you and was like that's not fucking cool, I'm gone, I'll never see you again. Best of luck to you. That's a shitty thing on her part. It's not a shitty thing on your part because you weren't given the opportunity to be like. Let's talk about this so that we can either navigate to a place of understanding or I can come to like shifting my behavior if it is inappropriate, if it does make you uncomfortable. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 1:28:32

Sure, yeah. This is where the shifting of behavior. If you're like that's not even close to my line, like I don't do that, that's not even in my realm of flirting, that's not even what it looks like Well, right, yeah Like but they're like, but it feels like flirting to me and I'm like, I hear you, I hear that that for you feels like flirting.

Speaker 1: 1:28:51

And then the truth is and I'm telling you the truth, that's not what I've learned. Like it's not even close to me for flirting, yeah. So like it's hard for me to go like, well, let me now adjust a behavior that seems based on insecurity, wounds or fears yeah, when I know that I'm not actually doing the thing that you want me to change something for. Yeah, and my stance on that and this is something I've stood hard for my own boundaries is, if you ask me or even make a demand to change something that comes from an insecurity, of fear or a wound, I'm not doing it. Now, if you want to iron it out for something that's actually like, hey, this is healthy for us and it's a healthy like this grows together, sure, but I'm not going to regress because you won't grow, and that's a line for me that I put down. I don't expect everyone to do it, but if I say, nick, I'm really insecure, you need to change, well, now you're going to enable me that you don't ever have to, I don't ever have to grow.

Speaker 2: 1:29:47

That's true, yeah, and I'm not saying that you have to shift behavior in that conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:29:51

I'm just saying the conversation in the gray area has to be a part of it. If it is a gray area because both sides have different perspectives, both sides deserve to have a say in what that looks like. If it is over a line upon reflection, personal reflection, self awareness, going back to it like it's incredibly important, like because you could I'm not saying that this is for you, but like if a guy sent a text to a girl at work who's cute and he tossed a little smiley emoji at the end, he could lawyer his way out of that and say, like that didn't mean anything. I put smileys in all my messages and it's a valid point. But in his heart of hearts if at the same time, he knew he was like trying to give her a little something, some little extra, you know that that is something that he has to make a decision on for himself. It doesn't necessarily mean that she's uncomfortable. He's got to change it's she's uncomfortable? Let's talk about why.

Speaker 1: 1:30:44

Well, if his intention is to try to be with someone else, yeah well, that will reveal itself anyways. And that's like one of those things where her healthy boundaries for herself is like that's what she asked me. Where's my line? I'm like do you want to be with that guy? She's like no. Then I'm like then we're good. As soon as you choose a different person, well then I'll go like that's my line, like you're gonna shoot. She's like but what if I tell somebody I hope they have a good day? I'm like I don't give a fuck. If they have a good day, go ahead Like I don't care.

Speaker 2: 1:31:12

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:31:13

You know what, if I said goodnight to somebody, I'm like, do you do it every day? Like well, no, then I'm like then I don't fucking care, do you want to be with that guy? No, then I don't care, that's me. But if she goes, actually I really like him and I want to be with him and I want to go spend time with him and I want to do this stuff with that guy that I'm like go ahead, sure, I'm not going to be around. That's just a lot. That's just that's where I have to hold a standard for myself, no different than if I want to go and be with a different girl, go hang out with her and go do other shit. I don't expect you to stay around for that. Right, that makes perfect sense to me. But if you said, hey, you know, guy from work, hope you have a good day, thanks for sharing the stuff, I'll talk to you later. Smiley face, I'll be like I hope you had a good day too.

Speaker 2: 1:31:54

I don't fucking care, ok, so that's just not the line for me, that's right and that's important because everybody's lines are different being able to find the line for your own sake and then be able to communicate the line.

Speaker 1: 1:32:08

Now let's get messy with the line, let's play. If pornography can have all of these restrictions, because porn is bad, yeah Well, what about social media and attention for women today? Yeah, all right, where's the line here? For I just posted a picture of me in my bikini feeling cute. Might delete later. Fishing very different than guys, because we hunt they, they plant traps.

Speaker 2: 1:32:37

Thirst trap.

Speaker 1: 1:32:38

And so now they're putting up posts that get hundreds or thousands of likes and or views, but they're like. These don't mean anything to me. Is that cheating emotionally?

Speaker 2: 1:32:54

I would say it's hard to not. Like I said my, my definition of emotional cheating is you are interfacing and connecting with someone in a way that should be exclusive to your marriage. Posting something on the Internet in a bikini isn't necessarily doing that. Now, if you're doing it as a means for attention, that will eventually get someone to talk to you and interface with you, Like if that's the end game, whether it's implicit or explicit they don't say that nobody's going to say it, nobody's going to say Remember, men and women hunt differently.

Speaker 1: 1:33:28

We pursue, yeah, we will DM and try to get in. But ladies will leave like bacon on the floor and the door open and just I didn't know how the dog got in here.

Speaker 1: 1:33:37

Sure, right, you know, it's one of those things where they put fishing poles on the stand and just don't touch them and you'll watch, they'll see who's biting and they'll go gross. Why did this guy bite? Ew, I don't like that. Ew, he liked my comment. This guy's so nasty, he likes all my stuff, sure. And then they'll see one who's like that's a nice one. They're like hmm, hmm, you're like babe, what are you doing? Nothing, nothing Like what is. Why are you sizing that shit up? What are you doing? What are you doing right now? I don't know. I just thought it was weird that this guy was DMing me. I'll just see what it's all about. Like, wait a fucking second here.

Speaker 2: 1:34:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:34:16

You were fishing but didn't call it fishing until you caught a fish that's maybe worth keeping. Yeah, what's that I?

Speaker 2: 1:34:23

mean slippery slope. I think the initial action isn't necessarily cheating I wouldn't put it in that bucket but it's fishing, no pun intended, it's, it is fishing. And I think that an important element too is like is it a change behavior? Is it a new attention seeking behavior that you didn't see before? Because if it came out of nowhere and all of a sudden you're like I'm going to start posting things in my bikini, Like that feels weird to me. That feels strange to me, why is that happening? Again, worthy of a conversation, Like going back to. Do you remember when the whole Jonah Hill boundary thing happened?

Speaker 1: 1:34:54

I didn't follow in Jonah Hill's boundary thing. What was that?

Speaker 2: 1:34:58

So Jonah Hill, you know who he is the guy from Superbad, right? Yeah. So, jonah Hill, he was dating this girl, began dating this girl who I think was either a swimsuit model or some kind of. She was posting stuff on Instagram in bikinis well before they were in a relationship. Like her job Right, it was either her job or yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:35:19

So they get in a relationship and he begins to kind of speak up about, like her posting herself half naked on the internet and saying, like you know, this is a boundary for me. If you can't not do it, then it's not going to work out for me. Like she was doing that before. It's not a new behavior. She's not fishing for you know, guys, she's in a committed relationship. She's committed to you. Like she's. The behavior hasn't shifted Right.

Speaker 2: 1:35:42

Like if you're married to someone, if you're in a relationship with someone, after five, six years they get bored and all of a sudden the bikini pick start and their ticktocks starts to become this like you know, I'm a siren type thing. That's questionable, it's fishy. Like I had a client straight up but he came to me because he felt as though he admittedly so, like he was pretty distant and disconnected for a decent chunk of their relationship. Up until like six months prior to us working together, his wife started posting stuff on TikTok in like you know the fucking videos where, like they're cleaning their kitchen in a dress and like there's certain elements of what they're posting to like try to bring the guys out of the woodwork and say like hey, you look nice today, that's a nice looking shirt, whatever. Or like hard emoji, whatever the fuck. Eventually some guy starts DMing on Instagram. She's, you know, engaging in that absolutely emotional. She didn't 100% and it just kind of became this slippery slope, like I said.

Speaker 2: 1:36:43

Now, does it mean that every bikini picture is that slippery slope? No, but I would say if it's a new behavior in a relationship that is already kind of not super connected, it's probably seeking something, it's probably looking for something. And do you have to wait until the eventual end game, where she finally catches a fish, to say anything about it? No, you can just bring it up and say hey, I noticed that. You know you've been posting these things and, you know, feels a little uncomfortable to me. It didn't look like what you were posting before and I just wanted to see where that's at and where you're coming from with that, and will she admit it up front? Maybe not, probably not, but at least getting it on the radar is something that you're keeping an eye on so that she understands, like a, I'm watching what's going on, and if it turns into the slipperyest of slopes, then something's got to be done about it. But yeah, I think.

Speaker 1: 1:37:38

So the Jonah Hill with the bathing suit thing Okay, so she used to do the bathing suit pictures before, and then, now that you're together, it's like, hey, babe, can you tone down the naked pictures? And that's like the only thing that you don't see is a nipple in the line. Like everything else is right there, like you can see everything on my girl. Can we just tone that stuff down? Well, I used to do it before, so why is it a problem now? Okay, well, these guys all been watching porn since they were 13 years old. Why do they have to stop now?

Speaker 2: 1:38:09

Okay, Well, one it's.

Speaker 1: 1:38:12

That was old behavior. They've always been doing that behavior.

Speaker 2: 1:38:14

Sure that old behavior in the context of what they might be looking at and secure about, whatever is affecting or an element of a relationship piece of this, like right there.

Speaker 1: 1:38:30

Well, maybe I'm jumping ahead. Did you agree with Jonah, or not? Okay, so if he was doing porn first and then he got a relationship and he still was doing it even after they got in the relationship, would you agree then that he should stop, because she doesn't have to stop doing the bathing suit pictures, right, because she was doing that before. But if this guy was looking at porn, he's not emotionally attached to porn, he just looked at it before. He should stop, though.

Speaker 2: 1:38:55

Well, so the bikini thing is a behavior that she's Posting and people are reacting to, so like that's, that's out of her control. What other people are doing to that right? Obviously Well, reacting, whatever what's it.

Speaker 1: 1:39:13

Was it for, though I mean like she's not posting it because she doesn't want attention.

Speaker 2: 1:39:17

Well, I again, I'm not familiar with why she was posting before, and I'm just saying the context was she was doing it before as an after.

Speaker 1: 1:39:24

Let's, let's make it as innocent as possible. Sure, let's make it the most innocent of innocent. It's just because it's her business. Yeah, and her business is her body. Sure, let's keep it as black, like it's nothing more, not attention. It's not the pleasure of seeing other people who like her. It's not any fishing, none of that stuff. It's just her business is her body and she shares her body right Now. If we do the same thing for this guy, he just doesn't. So he jerks off so he can feel fucking normal and not go nuts for the day Pun intended, nuts for the day. He's just like. I just had to get my rocks off, so I just like to watch something. Balance for a little bit finishes me off. Now I'm back to work, like it just keeps me from going crazy, especially in a relationship that has low intimacy.

Speaker 2: 1:40:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:40:07

Like if they're like this, it's wild because, like you had the video of, like you know it's been three weeks and you, like you made a good point like don't guilt and shame or end of sex. That's not a good play. But like Three weeks is a long as time. Like slow, hey, like that's still a human, so hold on a second. Like he's not supposed to take care of himself for a month, you're gonna have a fucking psychopath. If, if, if he's just pent up for months, sure, but you're not gonna take care of him. And so he's now bad. Because the behavior he did way before you, just to get his rocks off and go back to the day, is Now to be judged and ridiculed and shamed.

Speaker 1: 1:40:47

Yeah it's the same to me as the bikini pitchers. He was doing that way before and it's not. It's not an emotional attachment, it's just. I'm gonna watch a boob bounce, finish my thing, go on to work, I'm done. I'm not emotionally attached, I'm not in love with, I don't interact or text Any of these girls in the videos I just watched. It moved forward.

Speaker 2: 1:41:08

Yeah. So I mean I could understand how, like argumentatively, they feel very similar, but I think For the guy watching poor, he is engaging with something that that and to your I mean your perspective is it's just like no emotional attachment, just getting his rocks off, whatever, but like if he is having this sexual release while looking at thinking about someone else that isn't his wife, what isn't his girlfriend beforehand didn't affect her, but now it Affects her in some way. She feels insecure, though that that's not what she looks like. He's thinking about other women, whatever. So like that is Something he's doing to himself, that is engaging with something In a way that affects what she's doing. Right, the girl in the beginning bikini situation she's just posting a picture. She's not Emotionally or mentally or physically engaging with herself or with others. In a way that's like Arousing, arousing her in a way that maybe she would be aroused with her partner.

Speaker 1: 1:42:13

Give me a justification then, a reason that if you were posting up literally like boxer briefs, only photos or anything that like is sexy, as you could sure, oiled up on the beach looking hot in your whatever Tell, tell me the reason why you'd be doing it if it's not for some sort of Emotional attention. There's some sort of an attachment to likes, subscribes, views, attention, because if you're gonna say there's no emotional attachment for these women when it comes to attention online, I may have to argue a little bit.

Speaker 2: 1:42:46

Well, I'm not saying that there's any kind of in, there's not any Enjoyments or whatever from posting and getting attention. I think attention human beings, we enjoy attention, but I'm saying like getting aroused to the point of orgasm Isn't happening when she's posting a picture in a bikini. It's posting something for her business, to your innocent point, and it's not to get herself off. Does she get some attention from it? Does she possibly make some money from it for her business? Yeah, but she's not getting her rocks off and Displacing something that is meant for her, her partner, whereas in the perspective of a woman who might be insecure about porn, she's watching him or she.

Speaker 1: 1:43:29

She is putting out the things that people would masturbate to potentially. She's pretty much almost naked dude. Again, I'm trying to be I'm trying to be golden rule here. If you were putting out in content that was like you doing exactly the same things as bikini girl, let's put you as like you're that guy.

Speaker 2: 1:43:48

You're just you're, you're.

Speaker 1: 1:43:49

You're a handsome, beautiful man. You can put your shit out there like that, and you would actually be in the small percentage of guys who get that like just attention for how you like you could pull that off. Yeah, now you're doing that. Now, all of a sudden, the tattoos are fucking glimmering. The girls are losing their minds. Those blue eyes are just getting massive attention. Sure, but you're not doing anything with these ladies. Your girl would be completely cool because it's for your business.

Speaker 2: 1:44:19

So my wife wouldn't be cool because it would be a change of behavior, like if I went from guy who is talking about relationships to be like Lee. Yeah, look at what?

Speaker 1: 1:44:28

But let's just say the attention starts to hit old blue eyes. Himself is getting like you just got another hundred thousand. So yeah, and like, why cuz those blue eyes twinkle just the way they do? You like okay, all right. You're like you did one with your shirt off because you're like being a good dad with your shirt off, and that one drops another 250,000 subs and you're like, okay, so more no shirt photos start happening. And then you do one at the beach with you and just shorts and that one gets you another 250,000. You're hitting millions of subs. All of a sudden these videos are blowing up. Now your other content for helping relationships is good, yeah, but man, you just quadrupled your exposure from a couple you know Little bit. Attractive photos or attractive videos I'm doing. I'm a dad. I this is, it's not a dad bod, it's a father figure. Yeah, like this is I'm changing the game. Father of three holding your baby with like your fucking six-pack.

Speaker 1: 1:45:27

Yeah way to go, nick, looking good bro, and all of a sudden boom. Yeah now, yeah, there's a change in behavior, but it's for your business man. You're not actually interacting with any of these women. Sure, like you're not interacting, so is it okay for you to start putting up you know, almost Racy photos, because it is working for exposure, for you to be an icon of a good man who looks good.

Speaker 2: 1:45:54

So are you saying if my wife would be okay with that, is that the?

Speaker 1: 1:45:57

Well, I'm just asking is it okay for you to do what this girl is doing with bikinis? Because it is your business. It does make your business better. You get more exposure as a leader of a guy who walks the walk and I take care of myself Physically and I teach guys to take care of themselves physically. It's part of being a good man, yep, and I have the look, I have the vibe and it is sexy. But guys should also be sexy, so take care of yourself. Look good for your lady. I walk the walk. Look at my body and that starts to really resonate. Sure, should you just cancel that shit because she's like I don't like it, because that girl with the swimsuit stuff doesn't have to. Jonah's wrong, but if it worked in your favor, exactly the same thing. You're not putting your dick out there. It's just you and like regular likes, just no shirt or something, something where it's like yeah, are we crossing the line now? Because in.

Speaker 2: 1:46:53

In my specific case, if we're trying to make an argument for me doing that. Yes, because again it's a change of behavior. I I don't go around post my Self-certed list all the time and see I'm gonna have to play with this change of behavior.

Speaker 2: 1:47:09

It's like wait a second, it's the same if I was doing this before, if I, if I was doing this before I met my wife and Continue to do it throughout our entire relationship, became a father of three and continued after that and it, you know, continue to build my business or whatever it would, it would have to not be a problem because she accepted.

Speaker 1: 1:47:29

She accepted that upon entry that this is a part of she says no, what if she's like now you're my guy and I would really prefer you stop putting sexual photos up.

Speaker 2: 1:47:37

I would say this was part of the deal, like I was doing this beforehand. This is not so. Then new information. I'm not springing this on you out of nowhere.

Speaker 1: 1:47:45

Okay, so you know, then you signed up for it. I.

Speaker 2: 1:47:49

Mean. You are aware she would be aware that that was what my business was about prior to us meeting.

Speaker 1: 1:47:55

Yes, let's say, you glowed up If I was. I'm trying to, I'm trying to make this as balanced as I understand, but I'm Seems so subjective to like.

Speaker 2: 1:48:07

I just get to pick but again, I was not subjective. If the situation is, I go from not posting shirtless picks to posting shirtless picks and that's where my business takes off, and I keep doing it for the attention and for the business. That's a shift in behavior, that I'm using my body that should be exclusive to my wife as a driver of things both attention and business. That's. That's different from whatever this girl was doing.

Speaker 1: 1:48:31

She was doing the bikini stuff for prior to so now, if we look into the social media element, where the ladies like this lady in the dress who's in the kitchen, or women who are all of a sudden doing like feeling cute, might delete later who didn't do this for?

Speaker 1: 1:48:45

you yeah or whatever you know. This is behavior that you know. This should be considered. This is a problem behavior. You have a change in behavior and the change in behavior if it's something I don't like she you know the conversation should make sense that you're doing something that goes against our relationship now because it's new behavior.

Speaker 2: 1:49:05

Again, I'm not saying that it's like cut and dry. You can't do that. It's worthy of a conversation. It goes back to. That element of this is a gray area for us. This is new. I don't know how I feel about it, but we should be talking about this because this is new and I think to. To that end, it could very similarly mirror what you were saying about your standard and boundary of like. If you're not willing to To, oh, if it's coming from an insecurity or from a fear or from whatever it was.

Speaker 2: 1:49:31

Like that's not my problem, like that's something that you got to work on right, so like if you're trying to get attention because you feel like you're not getting enough attention, well, I'm just saying there's no way you can compete with me if, if a woman were to all of a sudden start posting things that were, you know, bikinis or in dresses, in for the intent, intention of attention and you can't say that, though they won't say it, I know.

Speaker 2: 1:49:56

I know, I understand. I understand that the reality is like people are messy and they're not gonna say these things out loud. But if you can perceive that right, if that's what's at play, and she comes back to you and says If this is your insecurity, if this is coming from a wound of yours, you're gonna have to figure it out Is that just as justified as your standard in boundary as well?

Speaker 1: 1:50:17

It seems pretty damn fair to me.

Speaker 2: 1:50:19

seems like that's where he's coming from, then, yeah because I mean the reason that I would start responding to like, if my wife beautiful lady, I mean it's just a knockout Got on social media and started like just exclusively posting bikini pictures, I would speak up About the relationship.

Speaker 2: 1:50:37

But it's absolutely coming from insecurity, it's absolutely coming from a wound of mine not being enough. Why are you seeking the attention of the other person so she could refer it back and send that my way and I could absolutely do the work on it. And maybe I do come to a conclusion that, like, she's still my wife and she still is a fucking knockout and I should be proud of that cool. So I've done the work, I've met up with that and she continues to do that behavior and it's not a problem anymore. But it came from a conversation. It came from, you know, addressing a behavior that was there and not just making it a black and white like this is done, you can't do this anymore, type thing if I'm breaking it down, it just feels like you have worked through understanding the intention.

Speaker 1: 1:51:21

The intention is what really seems like it's the issue. So a guy setting a heart, the smiley face emoji, for example what's the intention? Is like this I send emojis to everybody. There's no intention. Well, that's not, it's fine. Work on your shit. Hey, what's your intention for your bikini photo? It's what I do for work. It's not anything beyond that. Work on your shit. You know, don't, don't change somebody if she's doing something that's like no, no, it's not because I'm trying to fish or be with somebody else, it's because I'm doing this for my you know Business and I have it, so let's use it. Yeah, what's the intention? It seems more like we got to figure out intention. Now, this is where it's tricky, because you talked about fairness, justice. Even the concept of truth Get stretched. Now. Sure, and this is why it's really tough in relationships is because people will fucking lie, because lying gets you out of being in trouble.

Speaker 2: 1:52:12

That's why we lie sure yeah, it's so no trouble sucks.

Speaker 1: 1:52:17

So these guys are like she started posting all this shit and I don't like it. She's getting a ton of attention really easy, in a way that I couldn't ever. No matter how brilliant you and I are, we cannot compete with a bouncing ass. It doesn't matter we lose, we would lose. There's a million subs for a bouncing ass. We're pushing 300 K. We're not even able to play and you have to be fucking brilliant and we're at 300 K. She just has to be bouncy and win. We can't compete.

Speaker 2: 1:52:51

So like, or we can start chopping wood in the woods, like that. I don't know if you've seen there's that I know who you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:52:57

He's come out his name. He's a good guy overall, but good guy pulls the belt off and one swipe the girls were talking about it. I was like who is?

Speaker 2: 1:53:06

he's got lots, lots of subscribers. It's not. I think he's a good. But it's not because he's a good dude to town, it's cuz he chops wood with a shirt.

Speaker 1: 1:53:14

Listen, maybe we should be chopping wood. I don't know, if we should chop wood and then drop some hard psych work, your wife is gonna be like change of behavior, nicholas.

Speaker 2: 1:53:28

Possibly possibly.

Speaker 1: 1:53:31

Now, this is a. These are tough topics and it's hard. The social media one right now is fucking girls up and I'm just gonna put it on the table. It's making women have a really hard time. The comparisons that they have with other women have now become global. The attention is off the charts. It's off the charts attention. And you don't even have to be smoking anymore. The interacting with each other with only fans and different apps that make it so that people can subscribe to your naked pictures and then also talk to you. That's a fucking new thing. That's becoming a real problem. Like, and there's a lot more videos I'm watching where, like, the girl is watching the guy walk away because she's in the adult industry, which would be like havin, only fans of come, yeah, and good guys are. Like I'm not fucking playing that. I don't want to be with a porn star. Yeah, like I don't want that. We're in an interesting time where these girls can make six figures from their fucking apartment.

Speaker 1: 1:54:22

Yeah right Just by, you know, just being naked, yeah. And so what an allure, what a weird time we're in for relationships when, like, if money is tight, she could just get naked or masturbate in front of a camera and you guys got food for, you guys are good, bills are paid. That's a tough allure right now. And now you look at the younger generations of women, were the transactional relationships and or Upgrade to swipe right, get the better one, you know? Six foot tall, six figures, six pack what I deserve, get mine, boss, babe. All that shit that's being pushed on young girls these days it's making relationships almost impossible for like the 30 underground.

Speaker 2: 1:55:07

Yeah, I mean, relationships were hard and have been hard for generations. But when you add all the elements that you kind of alluded to there, it definitely Well, I'll say it this way like relationships are difficult and have been for generations, mainly because people just don't like, like you spoke to, like the psychology of humans and Relationship dynamics. If you understand them, life gets easier to navigate. A lot of people don't dig deep in this stuff. They don't understand it. They don't understand it for their own sake, they don't understand it for their partner. So, like for generations, it has been a struggle because of that, or at least that's been a part of it.

Speaker 2: 1:55:43

So you take that same crowd that isn't super interested in diving deep and understanding themselves, their partners and all of that, and then you Pour on top of it all the bullshit that you just mentioned. It's it's only gonna make it harder, and like the solution is peeling back and saying, okay, going back to, kind of my message that I sent to all men is like, what can you control? You can control you and outside of that, you can respond to the world and find better tools to respond to the world with. But if you're not looking at how you can control you, the only fans, the porn, the social media, the swiping like it's all gonna be your enemy no matter what. So you better stock up with some tools and some weaponry.

Speaker 2: 1:56:25

And that requires sitting and stillness and sitting down and learning about yourself and not thinking that you have it all figured out at the age of 18 Because, good god, I'm 35 and I still do not have it figured out, and just like being humble in that way and looking at yourself and knowing that If I can just figure some stuff out about me, the beautiful thing is when you do that, you start to recognize Things about other people a whole lot faster. Right, you know? I mean you've been in the work. I've been in the work Like you can sit with someone for five minutes down. You're like, yeah, you're fucking lying to me. I just I know it, I just know it. I've ran those circles, I've heard it all before, so you just know it immediately.

Speaker 1: 1:57:03

And if you know, I can't trick you with a mask. Right exactly, I love that I have that outfit. You can't tell me it's not.

Speaker 2: 1:57:12

I know I know how to get into that outfit, don't, don't fuck with right so like by doing that deeper work on yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:57:18

It's not that you become immune to the world.

Speaker 2: 1:57:19

It's not that the circumstances don't suck because they objectively do sometimes but you at least have a better chance of responding to them With some, you know, efficiency and effectiveness, like otherwise You're you're gonna drown in the in all of that stuff that you mentioned. Like I, I know, just by sitting with enough men and enough people, when you Can see stuff from within you that you see in other people, it's like, okay, I'm either gonna stay and dig deeper with this person because I can see that potential it's like a little diamond in the rough or I'm gonna be like there's no shot. Sorry, like I, I'll see you next time. Not gonna work out. So being able to do that from a place of your own introspection gives you not superpowers, but pretty close to it, and that's kind of the solution as it always is. And I think a lot, of, a lot of At least men in my comments on social media are always like what about her? What about her? What about her? And, like I hear you, women are, women are imperfect, they are.

Speaker 1: 1:58:15

I don't, I don't get that as much as you. I was looking at your comments on that. You get a lot of these guys who, like you, like thanks for the free content, knuckleheads Like you get right, you get some of the weird guy.

Speaker 2: 1:58:25

I don't, I don't see it right and I don't know if it's because sometimes I'm a little sassy with how I respond to guys and therefore it just kind of spirals from there and in terms of, like my energy, I'm putting out whatever. But yeah, like I get that question. A lot is like what about her? What about her? What about her? And, as we've talked about back and forth on on our time here, to get like all Humans are flawed. Women's and women are included in that conversation. My job as a men's coaching leader is not to tell you that your wife needs to change, not to pet you on your head and say like You're good, she's the problem. That's not helpful. You can recognize those flaws in her, but also like if you're not gonna work on you, we're not gonna talk about her, we're not gonna Focus on on her imperfections, because it all has to start with you every time.

Speaker 1: 1:59:06

Well, again, those guys generally seem to be more and like I don't. I don't teach polarization, but I can't deny it doesn't exist and so, like, if the dude's like highly in his feminine, you know he's gonna be more, like what about her? What about her? And I'm like all right, we're gonna need to get your balls so back on together here, because it's not about her man, it's about you, right?

Speaker 2: 1:59:25

she will respond to you. You know if you, if you got things going in the right direction.

Speaker 1: 1:59:30

Well said, dude. Actually that was. That was a really good. It was a really good response. I Resonate with that one. Well done, appreciate that. Yeah, I this has been. This has been fun. I know we got out. We got to call it because we got our two hours is coming up. It's been, it's flown by. Yeah, if there is a thing that like you got, like you've been working with guys long enough and there's just one thing you could just if I could just help the dudes remove this one fucking thing, if you get a genies with and you can make it gone, what's the one thing for guys that you would be like I'd help my guys, just that's gone. You, you're, that's not one of the fights we have to do anymore. What would be the one that you would just absolutely get rid of?

Speaker 2: 2:00:09

I think the the one thing that I would give to them a race from their struggles is, I Think, the the length of time until they realize that they are, that they should, they are a priority, that they deserve attention and energy, and all of that. I've worked with so many guys from the early days of the evolved man until now that Part of the breakdown in their relationship, or part of the breakdown in themselves, is I've given so much to everybody else because I thought that's what I had to do that Don't know who I am anymore, haven't had a minute to myself in 10 years, don't know what I enjoy, and Not to say that that is the cause of all of their problems in life. But life gets a lot easier when you even give yourself 20 minutes a day, when you give yourself 45 minutes a day wherever that time can be carved out. Because if you do that like I always, when I ever start working with a guy, it's like we're gonna talk about your nervous system for a while. It's gonna feel like we're not talking about your marriage. But we are like we're gonna talk about meditating, we're gonna talk about getting a little more rest, we're gonna talk about getting to the gym and working off some of the stress chemicals, because if you wait until there's a breakdown in order to realize that it's important, you've wasted 10, 15, 20 years of your best years.

Speaker 2: 2:01:19

And if you could skip that line and get that information when you're 21 and Make a morning routine, give yourself some structure, that's like I'm important here. You know, like I've been married for eight years and Because I started doing the work as soon as I became a husband, I knew, on the front end of being married, like I'm important here. It is not just my wife, we are a team and the only way I can be a good teammate is by taking care of me. And you know that I Think would be at the top of my list of what I would want to teach and let guys know is you are important enough to give yourself some time, because it it feels like it's not a big thing to give yourself a half hour, but my good, my, my god, like the compound interest on giving yourself 30 minutes a day every day for 10, 15, 20 years Is incredible. So that that would be my message to guys is give yourself some time, you're important.

Speaker 1: 2:02:11

Yeah, make yourself a priority. I do that. What to do? I think it's a good call. I put guys's number two.

Speaker 1: 2:02:17

Okay like take care of yourself as not God first. Okay, so it goes. God then yeah, and then it may be career or whatever it is, because if you can't feed your family, they leave anyways. So like you got to make sure that the provision is there, but then it's. It's the relationship first, and like relationship over children, yeah, but the relationship fails. Like kids are fine, yeah, like no relationship, yeah, my thing is person parent, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 2:02:43

Person partner parent is what I teaches you. First Partner.

Speaker 1: 2:02:48

Second I like again what do you mean my kids are?

Speaker 2: 2:02:50

important. Like, don't get me wrong, my kids get 98% of my time and energy. But my focus, my intention, I wake up after I've taken care of me. Like my wife needs a cup of coffee, I'm gonna take care of her. She's got an appointment. Like, let me check in, is she gonna be okay? Like, how are you doing like consideration of your partner and thinking about them in moments in between all the kids stuff throughout the day? You know that is not. It's not a greater amount of time and effort that I'm giving my wife, but the greater amount of attention and intention has to go to her first so it can flow down to our kids.

Speaker 1: 2:03:19

So I get the only way that this works and you're able to give more because you made more room in yourself to get Yep. But you take care of you first, you can take care of them back. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Well said, brother, I appreciate you?

Speaker 2: 2:03:31

Yeah, that's good for sure that's good.

Speaker 1: 2:03:34

Nick, this has been fun. Man, this is good and I honestly like I really I really very much enjoyed the conversation back and forth.

Speaker 1: 2:03:42

We do align a lot like there's usually I'd be looking big where we fucking not getting like yeah, it seems pretty pretty balanced out here, like you've done the work yeah and so I definitely would say, like, this is a guy who, if I were to say I'm loaded up, I got to refer out Nick you would be a resource I would trust. And so if you're able to say, hey, guys, like, if you want to get in touch, you got. The Warriors way is one option. I'm a very, I'm a rough fucking customer Dude. I go in hard. And if you're like you want to take a different approach, you like my style better, which I very much recommend. Like you seem when you got your shit together there.

Speaker 1: 2:04:17

Where do they go, nick, if they're like I like Nick, style man, this guy is my dude. Yeah, where do you want him to go? Where do you want him to click?

Speaker 2: 2:04:23

Oh Well, I think the easiest way to get that because, as we talked about before he came on here, my name does not sound like it spells whatsoever. So for me to say, go to nick maytash net or something you're like, what the fuck? Just go to my Instagram or my tiktok profile, click on the link there. There's a button at the top of that list that you can schedule a call with my team and and from there we basically listen to your story, see where you're at, see if you kind of align with what we know we do really well, because at the end of the day, like if I know that my, you know, the evolved man way is going to serve you best, cool, come on in, we got you. If, instead, I'm like Rick is actually probably your, your best bet, like I know, I know like 70% of what you need, but it sounds like from talking to Rick like he's the 100% guy we're gonna send you his way, like it's it's a matter of I don't think enough People do this in the world of coaching and leadership is, you know, vetting the person for what you do?

Speaker 2: 2:05:14

Well, rather than just taking anybody that wants to give you money, like we don't want to take anybody. We want to take somebody that we know aligns with the exact gifts that we give to guys. And if at the end of that conversation, after you book a call with our team, it's like, yeah, I think Rick's a better fit, we'll send you back to Rick after you've done the circle of seeing us here and going back. But yeah, I just go to my profile links, we'll do it for you. Just Um Schedule call. My team will hear your story where you're at what you need most and, if it feels like we're kind of in that realm of what you need, will go from there.

Speaker 1: 2:05:47

Sounds awesome. The evolved man himself, I appreciate you very much, man. Thank you for the time, and I think we gotta do more. Man, let's do more later on, because let's take some hot topics now that you know how we discord and let's go ahead and do some Gnarly shit to help some people out.

Speaker 2: 2:06:01

Sounds good to me, man, I appreciate that. Thank you, brother.